Sure. How much do you think a comparable Android device costs without a contract? Ken, I won't argue that there's problems with Android accessibility at a platform level, but that's going to reflect badly on the whole end user experience. On Dec 16, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Alex Midence <alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Perhaps you are right at that. I don't know much about the nuts and > bolts of Android. I am looking at it from an end user perspective. > The reason I don't have an iPhone is exactly the same as yours. I > refused to pay 700 bucks for a phone. My god, man, that's more than > some desktop pc's cost! Ridiculous if you ask me. It's a phone! > > Alex M > > On 12/16/10, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> You keep selling the talk back short but it is not really the problem the >> problem is actually the accessibility events . You are arguing the price >> but it cost me 700 $ for my IPhhone cause I didn't want the 3 year plan. >> >> Ken >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex Midence >> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 4:00 PM >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: Re: android app development >> >> Ken, >> >> Yeah, I know. I've heard the g2 is nice. It was also like twice as >> much money. Charm is the most affordable one with the most >> functionality. All the others either hadandroid 1.6 or didn't have a >> physical keyboard or were not on the list of phones that worked with >> eyes-free. The g-2 is the top of the line. Like 500 bucks or >> something. Mine was about 200 which I had them tack onto my bill over >> a year or two. My point is that it needs work. That, and that the >> screen reader is less advanced than that which you can find for >> Symbian, Windows Mobile and IPhone. I've never used Rimm so, can't >> speak on that. I was extremely impressed with the gesture interface >> for iPhone. You explore the screen with one finger and it knows that >> you are only using one finger. When you want to select something, use >> three fingers to tap it or just explore with three fingers and lift up >> on what you want to select. It was pretty cool. I was quite happy >> with Windows Mobile 6 and MobileSpeak. I moved to Android because I >> was impressed with Dr. Raman's work in Emacspeak and figured that if >> there was a blind developer in charge of accessibility for the >> eyes-free interface that the phone would work very nicely. That and >> I'm a Linux enthusiast. I'm pleased at the possibilities for the >> future which are far beyond the competitors. The gps is wonderful and >> free. Mobile Geo is expensive as is WayFinder. Walky Talky is free >> and very nice. The haptic thing is seriously cool to and what it >> suggests by way of possibilities is exciting. There are still bugs to >> work out, however and I often find myself wishing that I had waited >> another year or so before going with this option. We need a way to >> explore the screen without triggering events and still explore with >> the fingers and not the key pad. We need a way to assign hotkeys >> where physical keys are not provided. I have two enter keys, one a >> select key and the other a return key that do basically the same >> thing. I would gladly sacrifice one to be the hang up button. Heck, >> it ought to be mandatory that dial and hang up/end call bbe physical >> keys. The key pad needs to be usable while the phone us up to the >> ear. Turn off touch screen but keep keypad as input device. >> Automated systems like a banking system or my special needs transit >> system's automated menu are brutal to use right now. Just bugs, you >> see. rough edges that need to be ironed out and which I think should >> have been before this was released. Yes, it's open source and yes, it >> is technically free but you have to pay for the phone to get it and I >> am sure Google gets a slice of the proceeds any time someone buys >> Android phones. >> Alex M >> >> >> >> On 12/16/10, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Littlefield, >>> Tyler >>> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 2:33 PM >>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Subject: Re: android app development >>> >>> Hopefully some of this will get fixed. I know there has been talk about >>> it, but I don't know to much more than that. Thanks for the info though. >>> First off I use a lot of main stream apps from msn to a couple games. The >>> fact is you have to use eyes free to get all the functionality for now but >>> you can still download apps and use them if they use regular controls no >>> different than the IPhone and I have both. I will say the web browser is >>> better on the IPhone for now and so is email but at least you can use them >>> with the ideal plug in. You have one of the worst phones.. I had a G1 >> and >>> now a G2 and its much better. >>> >>> Ken >>> On 12/16/2010 12:10 PM, Alex Midence wrote: >>>> I have a motorola charm with android loaded onto it. It's just OK, >>>> Ty. Lots of potential but for now, it's just OK. Sometimes, it is >>>> downright frustrating, to be honest. The Talk-back screen reader is >>>> very primitive. It's greatest feature is incorporation of tactile >>>> feedback. It's going in a completely new direction than others on >>>> other platforms because of this "Haptic feedback." apparently, some >>>> work is being done to develop an app that produces haptic feedback in >>>> the form of a scanned image or picture taken with the camera.. >>>> Someone mentioned using it to tactally explore a building or >>>> something. What it lacks and this is big, is an exploratory mode for >>>> the touch screen. You can not explore that thing without selecting >>>> what you touch. Only work around is the "eyes free shell". If you >>>> want to use something mainstream, you are out of luck. Also, you >>>> can't assign hotkeys for stuff with it either. For instance, I can't >>>> hang up my phone. Others have to hang up on me. Reason? The hang up >>>> button is an icon on the touch screen appearing in different spots for >>>> every call. You can use arrow keys to arrow to it but, they stop >>>> working if the phone is up to your face and the screen reader voice >>>> turns down to incoming call volume when you are on a call so, if you >>>> pull the phone away from your face to use arrow keys, you can't hear >>>> the screen reader land on the hang up button. If you try to get the >>>> thing just close enough, your cheek will touch an icon or something >>>> and launch an application like the web browser or the weather widget >>>> or phone book and you have to close that app to get back to the call >>>> window to hang up all the while doing this little inch closer and inch >>>> away dance with your hand set so you don't turn off the screen and >>>> input from keyboard and still be able to hear what you are doing. So, >>>> I have a phone that has a gps, text messenger, camera, weather widget, >>>> etc that I can't hang up and that is a pain to dial with. Meaning, >>>> it's primary function is difficult to make use of. >>>> >>>> Observations from an Android end user who uses his phone every day. >>>> Alex M >>>> >>>> On 12/16/10, Littlefield, Tyler<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>> You've apparently not used android much. I know people that use it for >>>>> quite a lot, and it does more than narrator does. >>>>> On 12/16/2010 11:38 AM, Alex Midence wrote: >>>>>> So ironic. Downright sad, if you ask me. >>>>>> >>>>>> "In the house of the blacksmith, they use a wooden knife."--Old Latin >>>>>> American saying. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Mechanics' children have broken cars ..." "... A doctor's family >>>>>> never gets cured."--Old proverbs from elsewhere >>>>>> >>>>>> Alex M >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex Hall >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:30 AM >>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>> Subject: Re: iOS development? >>>>>> <snip> >>>>>> Android has the equivalent of Microsoft Narrator, whereas iOS has >>>>>> JAWS, complete with wireless braille display support (which is quite >>>>>> good, especially as it is the first braille support for iOS). >>>>>> __________ >>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Ty >>>>> >>>>> __________ >>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>>> >>>>> >>>> __________ >>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Ty >>> >>> __________ >>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>> >>> __________ >>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>> >>> >> __________ >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >> __________ >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >> > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind