RE: Windows 8, could .net loyalists be losing out? I'd like some opinions on this if you guys don't mind

  • From: Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 21:25:37 +0000

I meant compilers written in C# are rare.

From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Littlefield, Tyler
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:27 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Windows 8, could .net loyalists be losing out? I'd like some 
opinions on this if you guys don't mind

Uh, what do you mean are rare? there's the mingw c++ compilers, the borland 
compiler, vs has a c++ compiler, etc etc. They're not all that rare.
As for the binaries... The fact that there is a binary doesn't mean anything in 
terms of type-safety. C++ is type-safe to an extent, and the compiler will 
generate a binary. the c# compiler doesn't actually create a real binary, it 
creates a binary with MSIL, which allows for JIT. You can make it create a 
native binary, but that has nothing really to do with type-safety.
On 6/22/2011 2:11 PM, Katherine Moss wrote:

So then how come compilers other than Microsoft Visual C#.net are so rare.  We 
only have one to my knowledge, and not to mention, Mono's only popular with 
Linux, isn't that correct?  Folks seem to say that it is illogical to use 
anything but .net on windows if using C#.  Is that just an opinion?  And what 
you mentioned about native binaries, the problem with that, and the reason why 
I don't see other compilers written to give them to us directly is the 
type-safe requirement of the language.  Because isn't the most logical reason 
why programmers programming against the Win32 API for using C++ rather than C# 
due to the fact they don't want to deal with that?



From: 
programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christopher Coale
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:59 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Windows 8, could .net loyalists be losing out? I'd like some 
opinions on this if you guys don't mind



I personally like C# more than C++ as well. What Tyler is trying to tell you 
though is that C# is not a .net exclusive language. Meaning, C# doesn't 
specifically have to be for .NET. C# as a language is an open-standard, 
meaning, you can freely download the language specification and create your own 
compiler for it! That is something I find totally ironic, because the C++ 
standard costs money (the -real- standard from both ISO and ANSI). You don't 
have to support the .NET framework, and you can make your compiler spit out 
native binaries.

C# was created so that .NET could be shown off, yeah. But the actual language 
(don't confuse "C# -- the language" with "Microsoft Visual C#.NET -- the 
compiler") is platform independent. In all practicality though, you'll most 
likely be using C# with .NET.

On 6/22/2011 9:58 AM, Katherine Moss wrote:

I guess because I think that the language is more easily understood.  C++ has 
some extra syntactical things that are a bit hard to get used to.  And I also 
prefer C# because it was built for the .net framework, so the framework's 
offered services can integrate directly with it, and in order to get the same 
benefits with C++, the use of C++/CLI has been required, hasn't it?  Guys, 
please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always thought that C# was a language 
built specifically for the .net framework.  And it's prettier than most others.



From: 
programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Littlefield, Tyler
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 12:35 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Windows 8, could .net loyalists be losing out? I'd like some 
opinions on this if you guys don't mind



Why do you prefer c# over c++? And this is c#, not c# and the .net framework.
Also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_mode
On 6/22/2011 10:24 AM, Katherine Moss wrote:

I guess it's just a preference thing.  I prefer C# over C++.  And then what do 
you mean by real mode?  I'm confused.  And I didn't know that COSMOS didn't use 
the .net framework.  I had always thought they did.



From: 
programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Littlefield, Tyler
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 12:18 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Windows 8, could .net loyalists be losing out? I'd like some 
opinions on this if you guys don't mind



Can you tell me what the point would be, in throwing out millions of lines of 
code written in c, assembler and probably a couple others to write everything 
in c#?
C# isn't even really a .net language, as cosmos didn't use the .net framework. 
When it's just you and real mode, you don't have any .net framework to use; you 
don't even get the CRT.
More to the point, what would be gained by writing everything in pure c# and 
throwing away that much code?
On 6/22/2011 10:08 AM, Katherine Moss wrote:

What would be Awesome is if .net then had an interop feature for the new 
HTML/JS interface they're trying to support.  But the thing that stumps me big 
time is why in the world the new incarnation of the Windows OS couldn't be 
based on .net languages purely.  Haven't you folks heard of the Singularity 
project?  That and then the projects that came after it such as COSMOS, 
SharpOS, and then one other which I forget the name of right now.



From: 
programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:28 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Windows 8, could .net loyalists be losing out? I'd like some 
opinions on this if you guys don't mind



Actually all the article says is if you want to use the new api you have to use 
the html and javascript stuff.  Well there is plenty of old api's that I think 
Microsoft is going to continue to support but I guess we will wait and see.



Ken





From: 
programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christopher Coale
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 12:07 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Windows 8, could .net loyalists be losing out? I'd like some 
opinions on this if you guys don't mind



It (and the whole discussion here) came across as Microsoft dropping .NET as 
one of their products. If this was not the argument, then that's fine.

On 6/21/2011 7:14 PM, Sina Bahram wrote:

I think that you're falling trap to extending a lack of support for .net as a 
first class citizen for the desktop application space in Windows 8, to 
Microsoft as a corporation dropping support for .net.



These are very distinct issues.



The article implies one, the former, and it most certainly doesn't state any 
certainty or evidence about the latter.







From: 
programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christopher Coale
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:53 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Windows 8, could .net loyalists be losing out? I'd like some 
opinions on this if you guys don't mind



I dislike that article. Think about this logically, first. If Microsoft were to 
drop support for .NET, that also means they would have to drop support for WPF, 
Zune/Mobile applications and games, Xbox 360 user games and XNA, many 
components from Visual Studio 2010 as well as all of the .NET languages they 
have heavily invested money and time into. Even if you can't think about it 
logically, think about it logistically. You really think that Microsoft would 
drop -multiple- and very welcomed development environments in which they have 
invested millions of dollars and many hours, only for it to be replaced by a 
"development platform" that has not even been tested in the marketplace? Come 
on... look at the history of Microsoft as well. When .NET first came out, 
Microsoft gradually released it -- it didn't totally trump the Windows API. 
Look at WPF -- WPF did not totally trump WinForms, and it was gradually 
released. Microsoft is not stupid enough to suddenly and totally drop support 
for such a popular and widely used platform.

On 6/21/2011 5:52 PM, Sina Bahram wrote:



http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/06/html5-centric-windows-8-leaves-microsoft-developers-horrified.ars



enjoy



take care,

Sina



From: 
programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christopher Coale
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 6:01 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Windows 8, could .net loyalists be losing out? I'd like some 
opinions on this if you guys don't mind



What do you mean Microsoft would let .NET die? .NET is one of their larger 
endeavors, and is now as popular as (if not more popular than) Java. So, for 
Microsoft to just let .NET die would be an absolutely moronic move on their 
part. .NET isn't going anywhere anytime soon...

On 6/21/2011 2:57 PM, Katherine Moss wrote:

Hello all,

I was just reading a thread that has been since locked over at Silverlight.net. 
 I was wondering what you folks think in terms of who's telling the truth when 
it comes to Windows 8.  You think it's the MS folks, or do you think that they 
will just let .net and Silverlight die?  Thanks.









--



Take care,

Ty

my website:

http://tds-solutions.net

my blog:

http://tds-solutions.net/blog

skype: st8amnd127

My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features!




--



Take care,

Ty

my website:

http://tds-solutions.net

my blog:

http://tds-solutions.net/blog

skype: st8amnd127

My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features!






--



Take care,

Ty

my website:

http://tds-solutions.net

my blog:

http://tds-solutions.net/blog

skype: st8amnd127

My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features!

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