Using first principles, the search space has stayed exactly the same,
haha.
But, the search through it has now gotten, at a bare minimum 16, if
not 32, times faster.
More importantly however, you can use GPU acceleration for this.
Did the link I sent out after the below email have enough for you, or
would you like me to send more?
Oh, and it's young, my friend, young enough to think I'm right more
than I am, **grin**.
Take care,
Sina
*From:*programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Kerneels
Roos
*Sent:* Friday, February 18, 2011 9:57 AM
*To:* programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* Re: What's The Name Of This Gaming Thing?
Cite your sources, cite your sources young / middle aged / old man (it
is man right?)! Ha ha ha!
Sina, Is it really the case that a brute force attack beats all but
the very best these days? But what about "my" laptop.... I don't know
hey.... No, just kidding.
When I last read about it, about 5 to 7 years ago I think the
situation was that only at short, almost blitz games did the machine
wi, and at long games there were no conclusive answer. Could have been
other way round, but the point is that you *can* beat the machine in
some cases.
Ah well, can always get up and pull the plug can't you?
On 2/18/2011 4:36 PM, Sina Bahram wrote:
Just to add to this discussion a bit.
As far as chess goes, it is considered, anymore, very much
uninteresting. Unfortunately, chess, unlike what they thought in the
60's, requires no strategy anymore. A bruit force attempt is pretty
much guaranteed to win, and unlike in 1997 or 1995, my laptop is good
enough to beat all but the very best, and if I want to do that, I
could just throw it on my desktop.
Now, it is a nice framework within which to learn about min/max and
other simplistic AI strategies, so I encourage anyone who is studying
AI to write a simple chess solver.
Take care,
Sina
*From:* programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Ken Perry
*Sent:* Friday, February 18, 2011 7:33 AM
*To:* programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* RE: What's The Name Of This Gaming Thing?
Kerneels,
This is one of the best answers of this question I have seen outside
of a class room. I have nothing to add except if you're looking for
books on this sort of thing do a google search on "game intelligence
book"
ken
*From:* programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Kerneels
Roos
*Sent:* Friday, February 18, 2011 3:18 AM
*To:* programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* Re: What's The Name Of This Gaming Thing?
Hi Jim,
Nice question!
The problem of solving strategy games such as chess and tic tac toe
and drafts involves generating a search tree that represents as many
possibilities for each move at each level as you have resources for,
and then, by searching finding the best possible next move with an
eventual favourable end in mind. In essense, the program looks ahead
into the future to avoid being duped by sub optimal moves which might
yeald short term benefits but eventual damnation!
A big part of this is searching the tree or graph of possibilities
efficiently, representing the structures efficiently and employing
huristics (rules of thumb) to keep things from exploding into too
large to handle data sets.
It's part of the field of classic AI and it has been studied for
decades now. It's sometimes also referred to as symbolic AI as it
deals with discrete values and usually involves a type of math called
discrete math (as aposed to calculas for example, that deals with
continuous systems, values approaching 0, values approaching infinity
and fractions).
All this might sound fairly complicated but I can assure you it's
actually not, and many of these classic AI problems have been solved
sufficiently. For example, there are chess systems that can't be
beaten. Yes, the machines can beat us at very narrowly defined games
such as chess, and it can only beat the world champions with
significant effort on the machine designer's part, to such an extent
that it's debatable if the contest is even fair or not.
For example, in the whole Deep Blue saga, IBM programmed their system
to beat Gary Kasparov in particular. Had another world champion shown
up for the tournament it might have had different results -- an
indication of what an amazing game chess is and how hard it is to beat
the best mind on earth.
Moving on from classic AI, there is a very interesting field which
have been termed CI (Computational Intelligence) which concerns
it'itself with some of the same goals as classic AI, but it does this
with things like artificial neural networks (symulation of how a brain
functions), particle swarm optimisation (modelling how swarms of
living insects operate to find solutions to complex problems) and many
other models of real life living systems that exhibit intelligent
behaviour.
Wow, where has the time gone!
Cheers,
Kerneels
On 2/17/2011 11:17 PM, qubit wrote:
So did your coffee working yield the answer? *smile*
--le
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Homme, James <mailto:james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
*To:* programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Thursday, February 17, 2011 2:43 PM
*Subject:* RE: What's The Name Of This Gaming Thing?
Hay Laura,
I asked the question before my coffee started working this morning.
Jim
Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog
<http://mysites.highmark.com/personal/lidikki/Blog/default.aspx>.
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*From:* programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *qubit
*Sent:* Thursday, February 17, 2011 3:35 PM
*To:* programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* Re: What's The Name Of This Gaming Thing?
heuristics are just educated guesses. I suppose it can be useful
in developing strategies, but it's not the only part of the
science... Hey Jim, this must have been a good question with all
the attention it has received...*smile*
--le
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Christopher <mailto:ccoale427@xxxxxxxxx>
*To:* programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Thursday, February 17, 2011 2:29 PM
*Subject:* Re: What's The Name Of This Gaming Thing?
Heuristics, perhaps?
On 2/17/2011 12:25 PM, Haden Pike wrote:
Artificial Intelligence? Logic, perhaps? Just tossing ideas
out there.
Haden
On 2/17/2011 7:58 AM, Homme, James wrote:
Hi,
I'm not sure how to ask this question since I don't have the
background yet. When you have a program that is playing a
game, let's say a simple game, like TicTacToe, and it tries to
figure out what the best move is, what is that whole subject
called? Or when you have a game where you are moving two
people around and you don't want them to run into one-another,
is that the same subject?
Thanks.
Jim
Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog
<http://mysites.highmark.com/personal/lidikki/Blog/default.aspx>.
Discuss accessibility here
<http://collaborate.highmark.com/COP/technical/accessibility/default.aspx>.
Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
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--
Kerneels Roos
Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998
Skype: cornelis.roos
"There are only two kinds of programming languages in the world; those everyone complains about, and those nobody uses."
--
Kerneels Roos
Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998
Skype: cornelis.roos
"There are only two kinds of programming languages in the world; those everyone complains about, and those nobody uses."