RE: Web Page Editor for the Blind

  • From: dusty bray <dusty_bray@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:35:18 -0400

Do you mean that certain people would not benefit from this method or that the 
additional sounds would actually interfere with productivity for some people?  
In that case, i would certainly have to provide an option to remove the sounds 
as more than just a courtesy.  If that's really a major issue, i would 
definitely like to know the condition to which you are referring.

Well i should warn you-- you will find a ton of problems while testing my app.  
Probably the most significant deficiency:  it does not yet have the capacity to 
load Web pages.  smile.  You can only save.  This is as far as i've gotten with 
a few days of coding by myself.  So please be patient.  smile

Thanks a lot,

dusty.......


From: inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:49:03 -0700










I did finally get the message, and I will give your 
program a try, but realize that there are a lot of people that can't... work 
that way, do a little research on learning styles and you will see what I mean, 
smile
 
take care and I'll let you know how things go, I used to 
do quite a bit of beta testing for a couple three places so... 
 
have a great one, 
inthane
• For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and Links 
to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
• 
to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming 
languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  dusty 
  bray 
  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 7:19 
  PM
  Subject: RE: Web Page Editor for the 
  Blind
  
Yeah, you're definitely right, inthane-- it should have an 
  option to turn off the sounds, but this version is severely lacking in many, 
  many ways right now.  i just wanted to give everyone an idea of how this 
  system works.

And honestly, i think if i gave that option initially, 
  then everyone would just turn it off and not actually try to make it 
  work  smile.  i anticipate this being somewhat of a learning curve 
  because the user has to build mental connections between a sound and its 
  meaning.  In the same way, users had difficulty transitioning from 
  command line to Windows based operating systems because the graphical symbols 
  were totally unfamiliar at first.  But today, there exists a universally 
  recognized set of graphics for identifying objects, and these graphics allow 
  sighted users to work more efficiently now.  i see an opportunity to use 
  background noises for the same purpose.  You could fit a lot of useful 
  information in that empty space.

Of course, Windows has already tried 
  to incorporate sounds into the interface, but these sounds were used very 
  inappropriately.  Instead of associating objects with sounds, they 
  associated actions with sounds, which gives information after the fact.  
  So even as i use this new system, i'm having to consciously reprogram myself 
  not to think of these sounds as actions but as markers for object 
  types.

But i do want to know if people find this particular set of 
  sounds overbearing.  Should i adjust the volumes?  Can you hear the 
  voice clearly over the sounds?

Also, did you ever recieve my original 
  message??  That's really strange.  It's still 
  programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, right?

Ok, well definitely give me your 
  oppinion if you get a chance to use the software.  
  Thanks,

dusty.......




> From: 
  inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
  Subject: Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind
> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 
  15:23:42 -0700
> 
> interesting, I got your reply to Dusty's 
  message, but haven't received the 
> original even yet, hmmmmm!
> 
  
> I haven't tried your ap yet Dusty, but it would be nice if you could 
  reverse 
> things, in other words, turn off the added sounds, and return 
  it to full 
> speaking of the items, since I don't do well with sounds, 
  maybe a check box 
> in an options menu/dialog for changing it, giving 
  the user the choice?
> 
> regards,
> inthane
> ? For 
  Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and Links 
> 
  to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me 
  at:
> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
> ? to be able to view a 
  simple programming project in several programming 
> languages, visit 
  the Fruit basket demo site at:
> 
  http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
> 
> ----- Original 
  Message ----- 
> From: "John covici" 
  <covici@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: 
  <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 
  2007 2:49 PM
> Subject: Web Page Editor for the Blind
> 
> 
  
> >I wonder if it would work with hardware speech at all since the 
  speech
> > and the sound may get out of sync? Ever test this?
> 
  >
> > on Wednesday 10/10/2007 dusty bray(dusty_bray@xxxxxxxxxxx) 
  wrote
> > >
> > > Hi everybody,
> > 
  >
> > > i$,1rym looking for people to evaluate the Web page 
  editor that 
> > > i$,1rym starting and give some 
  feedback.
> > >
> > > i$,1rym incorporating some cool 
  features into this program that i hope 
> > > will allow blind 
  users to easily create content-rich Web pages. 
> > > i$,1rym 
  especially excited about the mathematical expression editor. 
> > 
  > And i think you$,1ryll enjoy some of the other surprises i$,1ryve 
  
> > > added.
> > >
> > > This application 
  also introduces a new concept for quickly 
> > > differentiating 
  between controls in the editor$,1rys interface. In 
> > > 
  applications designed for sighted users, components are visually 
> > 
  > distinct: buttons appear raised, text boxes appear inset, and each item 
  
> > > differs in some way that suggests its intended function. 
  Page Designer 
> > > achieves this effect auditorily. The 
  application plays programmatic 
> > > sounds in parallel with 
  voice output to quickly identify both an 
> > > object$,1rys type 
  and its value. So rather than speaking "OK button", 
> > > the 
  editor speaks "OK" and plays a popping sound at the same moment, 
> > 
  > effectively saving half the number of syllables. Textboxes are 
> 
  > > associated with a tapping sound; picture boxes are accompanied by 
  the 
> > > sound of a camera shutter; the volume of a radio 
  button$,1rys sound 
> > > varies depending its selection 
  state.
> > >
> > > Visit this link to download the 
  application: 
> > > 
  http://here-i-am.sourceforge.net/downloads/Here-I-Am_Page-Designer1.zip
> 
  > > The executable is named here-i-am_page-designer.
> > 
  >
> > > Please have patience with it. This is only a beta 
  version of the 
> > > program. Also, the interface is very 
  different and takes some getting 
> > > used to.
> > 
  >
> > > i hate making concessions for JAWS, but i$,1ryve 
  changed the 
> > > navigation keys to ensure my program 
  doesn$,1ryt conflict. As before, 
> > > the navigation model 
  arranges content into a hierarchy with parent nodes 
> > > 
  corresponding to higher levels of abstraction and child nodes 
> > 
  > corresponding to lower levels of abstraction. To see more details of an 
  
> > > object, press spacebar. If at any point you becomes lost, 
  pressing 
> > > Escape will move the selection up one level of 
  abstraction, revealing a 
> > > "bigger picture".
> > 
  >
> > > Unfortunately, this program is still far from the 
  screen reader i 
> > > envision. This is just a self-voicing 
  application, and the objects do 
> > > not correspond to actual 
  objects on the screen, so it probably lacks 
> > > much of the 
  functionality to which you may be accustomed. But i feel 
> > > 
  like i$,1rym slowly getting closer.
> > >
> > > Hope 
  you enjoy it,
> > >
> > > dusty.......
> > 
  >
> > >
> > > 
  _________________________________________________________________
> > 
  > Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf,Ai. 
  
> > > Stop by today.
> > > 
  
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline<html>
> 
  > > <head>
> > > <style>
> > > 
  .hmmessage P
> > > {
> > > margin:0px;
> > 
  > padding:0px
> > > }
> > > body.hmmessage
> 
  > > {
> > > FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
> > > 
  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
> > > }
> > > 
  </style>
> > > </head>
> > > <body 
  class='hmmessage'>
> > > Hi 
  everybody,<br><br>i$,1rym looking for people to evaluate the Web 
  
> > > page editor that i$,1rym starting and give some 
> 
  > > feedback.<br><br>i$,1rym incorporating some cool 
  features into this 
> > > program that i hope will allow blind 
  users to easily create content-rich 
> > > Web pages.&nbsp; 
  i$,1rym especially excited about the mathematical 
> > > 
  expression editor.&nbsp; And i think you$,1ryll enjoy some of the 
  
> > > other surprises i$,1ryve added.<br><br>This 
  application also 
> > > introduces a new concept for quickly 
  differentiating between controls in 
> > > the editor$,1rys 
  interface. In applications designed for sighted 
> > > users, 
  components are visually distinct: buttons appear raised, text 
> > 
  > boxes appear inset, and each item differs in some way that suggests its 
  
> > > intended function. Page Designer achieves this effect 
  auditorily. The 
> > > application plays programmatic sounds in 
  parallel with voice output to 
> > > quickly identify both an 
  object$,1rys type and its value. So rather 
> > > than speaking 
  "OK button", the editor speaks "OK" and plays a popping 
> > > 
  sound at the same moment, effectively saving half the number of 
> > 
  > syllables. Textboxes are associated with a tapping sound; picture boxes 
  
> > > are accompanied by the sound of a camera shutter; the 
  volume of a radio 
> > > button$,1rys sound varies depending its 
  selection state.<br><br>Visit 
> > > this link to 
  download the application:&nbsp; 
> > > 
  
http://here-i-am.sourceforge.net/downloads/Here-I-Am_Page-Designer1.zip<br>The 
  
> > > executable is named 
  here-i-am_page-designer.<br><br>Please have patience 
> > 
  > with it.&nbsp; This is only a beta version of the program.&nbsp; 
  Also, 
> > > the interface is very different and takes some 
  getting used to.<br><br>i 
> > > hate making 
  concessions for JAWS, but i$,1ryve changed the navigation 
> > > 
  keys to ensure my program doesn$,1ryt conflict.&nbsp; As before, the 
  
> > > navigation model arranges content into a hierarchy with 
  parent nodes 
> > > corresponding to higher levels of abstraction 
  and child nodes 
> > > corresponding to lower levels of 
  abstraction. To see more details of an 
> > > object, press 
  spacebar. If at any point you becomes lost, pressing 
> > > Escape 
  will move the selection up one level of abstraction, revealing a 
> > 
  > "bigger picture".<br><br>Unfortunately, this program is still 
  far from 
> > > the screen reader i envision.&nbsp; This is 
  just a self-voicing 
> > > application, and the objects do not 
  correspond to actual objects on the 
> > > screen, so it probably 
  lacks much of the functionality to which you may 
> > > be 
  accustomed.&nbsp; But i feel like i$,1rym slowly getting 
> > 
  > closer.<br><br>Hope you enjoy 
  it,<br><br>dusty.......<br><br><br /><hr 
  
> > > />Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the 
  Messenger 
> > > Caf,Ai. <a 
> > > 
  
href='http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline'
 
  
> > > target='_new'>Stop by 
  today!</a></body>
> > > </html>
> > -- 
  
> > Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question 
  is:
> > How do
> > you spend it?
> >
> > 
  John Covici
> > covici@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'カ翰学ョf渇旛jxハ恭・xjリカ淌 
  ュ迥ヒ「ク・嘯カ・nX
> __________
> View the list's information and change 
  your settings at 
> 
  http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> 


  
  Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get 
  'em! 

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