Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
- From: "Bryan Garaventa" <bgaraventa11@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:27:47 -0800
Yes, true enough. The problem that I've come across repeatedly is that
everything is relative, and you can't please everyone.
For instance, it took me a long time to get gutterstar.net to look visually
appealing. My goal was to produce a site that was appealing to both sighted and
non-sighted users, while preserving accessibility. The difficulty for myself
though, was that I lost my site before the internet was ever around (well the
localnet was around, but this was mainly bulletin boards...). I've never seen a
web page of any sort, so when I was learning CSS and various layout methods, I
needed visual feedback to notify me when I was making mistakes. Mistakes are
easy to do with CSS, especially when layering and overlapping start to occur.
So, I would ask someone to check it out, and they would say "Oh wow! That's
awesome!". That was great, it made me feel all fuzzy inside like I had actually
done something worth while. Then, I would tell someone else about it, all proud
of course, and they would report back "Why are all of your web pages that
horrid brown color? It makes them look like... Well... You know..." And my
first overreaction is "What the hell is wrong with JAWS! I checked the bloody
colors when I wrote the damned thing..." and so on...
Well, it took a lot of trial and error, but eventually I got the hang of it,
and can now fairly accurately determine what the consequences of various code
implementations will be. Unfortunately though, I really wouldn't have been able
to get to this point if I hadn't received visual feedback during the learning
process.
Being blind sucks, but it's a condition like any other. If visual feedback
will aid me in accomplishing a task, I'll be the first one to seek it out. I've
learned the hard way that being too proud to do so, is a lonely and fruitless
occupation.
----- Original Message -----
From: Octavian Rasnita
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
Yes I also like when the sighted or the blind have complaints, because most
of the times I know what I need to change for making the site look better. But
the problem is that sometimes the complaints sound like "Oh, but that page is
not nice. Please make it to looke nicely. Can't you?", or "That stock chart has
the lines too proximate, and I can't see them very clear", or "those 3 charts
with volumes and the other 2 indicators should be put in the same image below
the main candlestick chart", and so on.
Well, those charts are generated dynamicly, by the program, and by a program
that was not made by me, because it would take a very long time just to make
that program that generates the graphic, and I need just to change it in order
to "look better", but I cannot see the distances between the lines or other
things like that, (like a sighted person easily can), and I don't have the time
for making studies about how to do that, because this is a very very small part
of the job I need to do.
I know that a blind person that stays at home the entire day in front of the
computer, has the necessary time and power to study and make tests in order to
do this kind of complicated things, but even in that case, they won't be able
to do anything without having some sighted help for telling them how the result
looks.
Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Garaventa
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
That's alright, I haven't actually received any complaints. If I ever do
though, it simply indicates an area for improvement. I've always been open
about this to my clients, and they appear to appreciate it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Octavian Rasnita
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
You cannot ignore the complaints if the complaints come from the
customers, because they might choose to work with one of your competitors.
And most of the times the sighted users don't have any complaints, but
just don't like and just don't use a site that they don't like.
Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Garaventa
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
Hey, I'm rather pleased with the layout of gutterstar.net... I'm pretty
sure the layout looks appealing, I know I've put enough work into it for me to
believe this anyway... All I have to do is ignore the complaints?
----- Original Message -----
From: Darragh Ó Héiligh
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
Quote:
> Please tell us where can we see the web page made by that blind
guy, and
I
> will tell you if a blind person can do it without sighted help.
> I've seen many messages on this list telling how cool web pages
can a
> blind
>
> do, with with no single example.
>
> Octavian
>
take a look at:
www.nickykealy.com
www.kenoheiligh.ie
also look at a cached version of nvm.ie and digitaldarragh.com
my own website is down at the moment as I'm restructuring it and the
online version was getting in the way.
I'm by no means a designer on par with a sighted person but it can
definitly be done. it just takes a bit more determination.
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