Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
- From: "Bryan Garaventa" <bgaraventa11@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:30:32 -0800
Ah well, I guess this just proves the point... You can't please everyone.
I really couldn't care less that my site isn't a 'competitive good web design
made by a blind', because that was never my intention in the first place.
A team would consist of two or more developers working on the coding for a
project, or by taking responsibility for various tasks of that project to
accomplish the goal as a whole. However, all developers, blind or otherwise,
depend on user feedback to enhance the quality of their products. If an
architect were to create a building, and asked someone with a mobility
impairment whether they liked and considered the building suitable for their
needs, would this then make the architect less of an architect? Would they have
to be considered a team?
Moreover, if this hypothetical architect had no knowledge regarding the
installation of plumbing, and thus relied on someone else to complete this
task, or at the least, provide the knowledge necessary for him to complete the
task, would this make him any less of an architect?
All developers have weaknesses in their knowledge and methodologies. The good
ones however, take the extra time necessary to compensate for them by either
learning how to overcome such, or by consulting those with the knowledge to
help them do so. This does not degrade their status as a developer. Saying
that, if you cannot do everything within a specific field, you are somehow
proven to be substandard within that field, is ridiculous. It is impossible for
any one person to know everything.
As far as my own site goes, I really had no intention of making it a statement
for blind developers, or even making this a focus point for the site. Nor did I
have any intention of creating a competitive blind site to compete with sites
created by other blind developers.
At first it was a learning experience, a place to try out new ideas and hone my
skills in various web design techniques and languages. Within the last four
years or so though, my goal has shifted to attracting more sighted visitors. My
reason? Well, that's fairly easy actually... I'm really a bastard capitalist at
heart, and the sighted market share is much wider than the blind one.
As it now stands, the majority of my web traffic comes from sighted users.
Also, the majority of services and downloads are also being used by sighted
users. This is not because I prefer one over the other, but rather, because I
did put so much time and effort into ensuring a good experience for both
sighted and non-sighted users.
For being a bastard though, I like to think at least that I'm a nice one...
----- Original Message -----
From: Octavian Rasnita
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
See? I don't consider this a competitive good web design made by a blind.
Your sight might look really nice, but if you needed much more time to create
it, and then you need other sighted persons to check it now and then in order
to be sure you didn't make any mistake, the result is not a web design made by
the blind, but a design made in a team.
And yes, as I said in a previous discussion on the list on the same subject,
a blind person can be a part of a web design team.
But if you are a part of a web designers team and you can't do everything,
then you cannot be a web designer.
Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Garaventa
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
Yes, true enough. The problem that I've come across repeatedly is that
everything is relative, and you can't please everyone.
For instance, it took me a long time to get gutterstar.net to look visually
appealing. My goal was to produce a site that was appealing to both sighted and
non-sighted users, while preserving accessibility. The difficulty for myself
though, was that I lost my site before the internet was ever around (well the
localnet was around, but this was mainly bulletin boards...). I've never seen a
web page of any sort, so when I was learning CSS and various layout methods, I
needed visual feedback to notify me when I was making mistakes. Mistakes are
easy to do with CSS, especially when layering and overlapping start to occur.
So, I would ask someone to check it out, and they would say "Oh wow! That's
awesome!". That was great, it made me feel all fuzzy inside like I had actually
done something worth while. Then, I would tell someone else about it, all proud
of course, and they would report back "Why are all of your web pages that
horrid brown color? It makes them look like... Well... You know..." And my
first overreaction is "What the hell is wrong with JAWS! I checked the bloody
colors when I wrote the damned thing..." and so on...
Well, it took a lot of trial and error, but eventually I got the hang of
it, and can now fairly accurately determine what the consequences of various
code implementations will be. Unfortunately though, I really wouldn't have been
able to get to this point if I hadn't received visual feedback during the
learning process.
Being blind sucks, but it's a condition like any other. If visual
feedback will aid me in accomplishing a task, I'll be the first one to seek it
out. I've learned the hard way that being too proud to do so, is a lonely and
fruitless occupation.
----- Original Message -----
From: Octavian Rasnita
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
Yes I also like when the sighted or the blind have complaints, because
most of the times I know what I need to change for making the site look better.
But the problem is that sometimes the complaints sound like "Oh, but that page
is not nice. Please make it to looke nicely. Can't you?", or "That stock chart
has the lines too proximate, and I can't see them very clear", or "those 3
charts with volumes and the other 2 indicators should be put in the same image
below the main candlestick chart", and so on.
Well, those charts are generated dynamicly, by the program, and by a
program that was not made by me, because it would take a very long time just to
make that program that generates the graphic, and I need just to change it in
order to "look better", but I cannot see the distances between the lines or
other things like that, (like a sighted person easily can), and I don't have
the time for making studies about how to do that, because this is a very very
small part of the job I need to do.
I know that a blind person that stays at home the entire day in front of
the computer, has the necessary time and power to study and make tests in order
to do this kind of complicated things, but even in that case, they won't be
able to do anything without having some sighted help for telling them how the
result looks.
Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Garaventa
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
That's alright, I haven't actually received any complaints. If I ever
do though, it simply indicates an area for improvement. I've always been open
about this to my clients, and they appear to appreciate it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Octavian Rasnita
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
You cannot ignore the complaints if the complaints come from the
customers, because they might choose to work with one of your competitors.
And most of the times the sighted users don't have any complaints,
but just don't like and just don't use a site that they don't like.
Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Garaventa
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
Hey, I'm rather pleased with the layout of gutterstar.net... I'm
pretty sure the layout looks appealing, I know I've put enough work into it for
me to believe this anyway... All I have to do is ignore the complaints?
----- Original Message -----
From: Darragh Ó Héiligh
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
Quote:
> Please tell us where can we see the web page made by that
blind guy, and
I
> will tell you if a blind person can do it without sighted
help.
> I've seen many messages on this list telling how cool web
pages can a
> blind
>
> do, with with no single example.
>
> Octavian
>
take a look at:
www.nickykealy.com
www.kenoheiligh.ie
also look at a cached version of nvm.ie and digitaldarragh.com
my own website is down at the moment as I'm restructuring it and
the online version was getting in the way.
I'm by no means a designer on par with a sighted person but it
can definitly be done. it just takes a bit more determination.
Other related posts:
