O, don't get me wrong. I use edsharp a lot--it's great for working with python. It's just beyond dificult to do -anything- with the code, much less fix bugs when the code is in the state it is in. I don't understand a lot of why things are done, and there really isn't a sain reason for calling to VB classes, etc. It just makes the debugging 10 times harder.
On 11/30/2010 7:49 AM, Jared Wright wrote:
I think the issue is less what Jamal has or hasn't developed and more about just the state of the code. The open source mentality encourages others to help out with the software's maturation, but with such severely suspect code organization undermining that idea I can understand why Tyler is frustrated. That said, he's come about a hair's breadth from outright sniping. We get your point, Ty. It's all in one file, and that's hardly ideal. Interestingly enough, if you use an IDE this sort of thing has less impact since the IDE critically assesses all the components in the program--it knows it's more than just a blob of text. But a huge chunk of Edsharp's user base appreciates it, and rightfully so, as the text editor feature rich enough and accessible enough to allow blind programmers to forsake the IDE. Curious.On 11/30/2010 9:05 AM, Christopher wrote:I have to say... open source or not, once you release something to the community expect it to be reviewed and ridiculed, and be prepared to spend your life working on it. Yes, I have experience in this and it gets exhausting. When you release something that is open source, and are not constantly correcting bugs, you can't expect your user base to fix them all (or in fact, any of them) -- it just doesn't work like that.I've written a few C++ libraries and have released them. All of them have been open source. That has not stopped the user base from asking for more features, showing ME where the bugs are and expecting ME to fix them. The simple fact is, if you plan on developing a product and release it to the general public, open source or not, be prepared to support it. To release something and then completely abandon it or barely support it will look horrible on the developer.I personally don't use Jamal's editor, but I thought I would point this out.On 11/30/2010 4:02 AM, Ken Perry wrote:If you know what you're talking about fix it. It is open source. Do you remember what that means? I never said the slow time was great I said it's a usable tool. We are waiting for your enlightened fix. It's one thing to bitch about a problem. It's another to fix the problem. I will mention that this was and is again the problem with the visual st udio 2005 to 2008 scripts. We all wine that it don't work but how many of us take the time to do better or to fix the problems that exist. If your fix works get it in Jamal is one of the best at getting peoples fixes in that I know of. Infact if you have enough time to spend writing all these complaints you surely have the time to write a few lines of fix code. Ken -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Littlefield,Tyler Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 12:41 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor yes. Even -if- I know what I'm talking about. Have you ever bothered looking at that code? not to mention the mangling I had to do to get my startup time to decrease from 45 seconds, we're usingmicrosoft.visualbasic classes for IO. There's little to no docs. I spenthours messing with it, I know how frustrating it is. There's a difference in reading horrible code and cleanly well-written code. But of course, I just don't know what I'm talking about and code here isn't the key. What matters as long as it works? We'll just overlook some lag that an editor shouldn't experience -at all- for startup. Hell, 3-d games load faster. But then again, experience is the key, and I don't know what I'm talking about... On 11/29/2010 9:34 PM, Ken Perry wrote:I think Jamal experience here is the key. Even if Tylor knew what he wastalking about I actually had the word perfect code version 6.1 on mycomputer at one time because I took class from one of the coders. If you want to see any code that is in need of drugs while reading that was oneofthem. It was still the best word processor and in my opinion still is.Itis like the old argument of which programming language is better the oneyoucan do millions of things in one line or 1 thing in millions of lines.Thetruth is the best one is the one that gets the job done and that other people can get us out of it. I think I can say for many here that Edsharpprogram while not perfect (what program is) is more than useful and I forone being a professional prprogrammer who has used it and will use itagainam glad youare out there making tools like this. If I wanted an editor to load quickly I would sit down and write it in ASM if I want a tool that can do millions of things I would use Dll's to make the program as bug free aspossible which is exactly what you did it seems. Keep up the good work. Ken -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamal MazruiSent: Monday, November 29, 2010 9:29 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: Littlefield, Tyler Subject: Re: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor Tyler, Please let us know when you actually publish a free, open sourceapplication, including documentation, that people besides yourself findworthwhile to use .... Jamal On 11/29/2010 12:30 PM, Littlefield, Tyler wrote:It's in edsharp.cs in the edsharp folder. I recommend lots of pain killers before you begin... On 11/29/2010 9:09 AM, RicksPlace wrote:Hi: Is that .net code? If so is it vb.net or csharp or what? Someonementioned .net before but I am not sure about it. I am just interesteda little to see how it was developed. Rick USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 9:14 AM Subject: Re: Quest for the Perfect Text EditorYou -could- write code, but adding to a file of 12k lines with minimal documentation and horrible coding is kind of hard to do. I had to spend hours to get the thing to not take 30 seconds to startup. I like edsharp, but now a lot less so now that I've seen how thecode under the hood works. It doesn't change that it is a goodeditor, just kind of shines and shows why the problems that exist doexist for me. On 11/29/2010 4:58 AM, Homme, James wrote:Hi Kerneels,I'm unsure how you'd define the perfect text editor, but in my view, and I've put it through a lot of its paces, EdSharp is my editor ofchoice. Second choice for me is NoteTab or NoteTab Pro if you want to spend the $29 US. I'd recommend that you do that if you use NoteTab. It has extremely powerful features. But EdSharp talks better out of the box, because it was written for people who are blind. And you can spend the time to customize it the way you want it to work if you are willing to write code that hooks into it, because it offers you most of .Net to play with. Thanks. Jim Jim Homme, Usability Services, Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of KerneelsRoos Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 4:02 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor Hi list, I'm looking for some great programmer's text editors that arecompattible with NVDA and/or JAWS. Since the latest NVDA seems to have some significant improvements over previous versions, I was wonderingwhich text editors might now also become compattible with NVDA. It wouldactualy be a good idea to setup a few pages with tables comparing how well each editor works with all the diferent screen readers. Such a comparison database would be a great idea for a one stop refernce for many kinds of applications, but I thought the most important one for aprogrammer is definately a good text editor.Would other members on this list be interested in and/or willing toassist in compiling such a database?I think it could save a lot of time and effort for all of us if therecould be a one stop database with profiles of useful applications, categorised by the job they perform and how well they perform thatjob.To start off, it could be limited to apps useful to programmers andtext editors in particular. Regards. -- Kerneels Roos Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998 Skype: cornelis.roos __________ View the list's information and change your settings at http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and areintended solely for use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. 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