Re: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor

  • From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 09:29:09 -0700

O, don't get me wrong. I use edsharp a lot--it's great for working with python. It's just beyond dificult to do -anything- with the code, much less fix bugs when the code is in the state it is in. I don't understand a lot of why things are done, and there really isn't a sain reason for calling to VB classes, etc. It just makes the debugging 10 times harder.

On 11/30/2010 7:49 AM, Jared Wright wrote:
I think the issue is less what Jamal has or hasn't developed and more about just the state of the code. The open source mentality encourages others to help out with the software's maturation, but with such severely suspect code organization undermining that idea I can understand why Tyler is frustrated. That said, he's come about a hair's breadth from outright sniping. We get your point, Ty. It's all in one file, and that's hardly ideal. Interestingly enough, if you use an IDE this sort of thing has less impact since the IDE critically assesses all the components in the program--it knows it's more than just a blob of text. But a huge chunk of Edsharp's user base appreciates it, and rightfully so, as the text editor feature rich enough and accessible enough to allow blind programmers to forsake the IDE. Curious.
On 11/30/2010 9:05 AM, Christopher wrote:
I have to say... open source or not, once you release something to the community expect it to be reviewed and ridiculed, and be prepared to spend your life working on it. Yes, I have experience in this and it gets exhausting. When you release something that is open source, and are not constantly correcting bugs, you can't expect your user base to fix them all (or in fact, any of them) -- it just doesn't work like that.

I've written a few C++ libraries and have released them. All of them have been open source. That has not stopped the user base from asking for more features, showing ME where the bugs are and expecting ME to fix them. The simple fact is, if you plan on developing a product and release it to the general public, open source or not, be prepared to support it. To release something and then completely abandon it or barely support it will look horrible on the developer.

I personally don't use Jamal's editor, but I thought I would point this out.

On 11/30/2010 4:02 AM, Ken Perry wrote:
If you know what you're talking about fix it. It is open source. Do you remember what that means? I never said the slow time was great I said it's a usable tool. We are waiting for your enlightened fix. It's one thing to bitch about a problem. It's another to fix the problem. I will mention that this was and is again the problem with the visual st udio 2005 to 2008 scripts. We all wine that it don't work but how many of us take the time to do better or to fix the problems that exist. If your fix works get it in Jamal is one of the best at getting peoples fixes in that I know of. In
fact if you have enough time to spend writing all these complaints you
surely have the time to write a few lines of fix code.


-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Littlefield,
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 12:41 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor

yes. Even -if- I know what I'm talking about. Have you ever bothered
looking at that code? not to mention the mangling I had to do to get my
startup time to decrease from 45 seconds, we're using
microsoft.visualbasic classes for IO. There's little to no docs. I spent
hours messing with it, I know how frustrating it is. There's a
difference in reading horrible code and cleanly well-written code. But
of course, I just don't know what I'm talking about and code here isn't
the key. What matters as long as it works? We'll just overlook some lag
that an editor shouldn't experience -at all- for startup. Hell, 3-d
games load faster. But then again, experience is the key, and I don't
know what I'm talking about...

On 11/29/2010 9:34 PM, Ken Perry wrote:
I think Jamal experience here is the key. Even if Tylor knew what he was
talking about I actually had the word perfect code version 6.1 on my
computer at one time because I took class from one of the coders. If you want to see any code that is in need of drugs while reading that was one
them. It was still the best word processor and in my opinion still is.
is like the old argument of which programming language is better the one
can do millions of things in one line or 1 thing in millions of lines.
truth is the best one is the one that gets the job done and that other
people can get us out of it.  I think I can say for many here that Ed
program while not perfect (what program is) is more than useful and I for
one being a professional prprogrammer who has used it and will use it
am glad you
are out there making tools like this. If I wanted an editor to load quickly I would sit down and write it in ASM if I want a tool that can do millions of things I would use Dll's to make the program as bug free as
possible which is exactly what you did it seems.

Keep up the good work.

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamal Mazrui
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 9:29 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Littlefield, Tyler
Subject: Re: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor

Please let us know when you actually publish a free, open source
application, including documentation, that people besides yourself find
worthwhile to use ....


On 11/29/2010 12:30 PM, Littlefield, Tyler wrote:
It's in edsharp.cs in the edsharp folder. I recommend lots of pain
killers before you begin...
On 11/29/2010 9:09 AM, RicksPlace wrote:
Hi: Is that .net code? If so is it or csharp or what? Someone
mentioned .net before but I am not sure about it. I am just interested
a little to see how it was developed.
Rick USA
----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler"
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor

You -could- write code, but adding to a file of 12k lines with
minimal documentation and horrible coding is kind of hard to do. I
had to spend hours to get the thing to not take 30 seconds to start
up. I like edsharp, but now a lot less so now that I've seen how the
code under the hood works. It doesn't change that it is a good
editor, just kind of shines and shows why the problems that exist do
exist for me.
On 11/29/2010 4:58 AM, Homme, James wrote:
Hi Kerneels,
I'm unsure how you'd define the perfect text editor, but in my view, and I've put it through a lot of its paces, EdSharp is my editor of
choice. Second choice for me is NoteTab or NoteTab Pro if you want
to spend the $29 US. I'd recommend that you do that if you use
NoteTab. It has extremely powerful features. But EdSharp talks
better out of the box, because it was written for people who are
blind. And you can spend the time to customize it the way you want
it to work if you are willing to write code that hooks into it,
because it offers you most of .Net to play with.



Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog. Discuss
accessibility here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and
accessibility advice

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kerneels
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 4:02 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor

Hi list,
I'm looking for some great programmer's text editors that are
compattible with NVDA and/or JAWS. Since the latest NVDA seems to have some significant improvements over previous versions, I was wondering
which text editors might now also become compattible with NVDA. It
actualy be a good idea to setup a few pages with tables comparing how well each editor works with all the diferent screen readers. Such a comparison database would be a great idea for a one stop refernce for many kinds of applications, but I thought the most important one for a
programmer is definately a good text editor.

Would other members on this list be interested in and/or willing to
assist in compiling such a database?

I think it could save a lot of time and effort for all of us if there
could be a one stop database with profiles of useful applications,
categorised by the job they perform and how well they perform that
To start off, it could be limited to apps useful to programmers and
editors in particular.


Kerneels Roos
Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998
Skype: cornelis.roos

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