Re: Programming Preferences Was RE: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!

  • From: Andreas Stefik <stefika@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 14:50:25 -0500

In C, the ++ operator, so the joke would be that C++ is C incremented.

Cheesy, for sure ...

Stefik

On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Øyvind Lode <oyvind.lode@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Thanks Jackie and everyone else:
> I now have a load of information/tutorials.
> As I understand C++ is like a "new" version of C?
> Do I need to have a look at C before starting out with the C++ tutorials?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jackie McBride
> Sent: 1. juli 2010 21:22
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Programming Preferences Was RE: I feel like giving up on
> programming altogether!
>
> Oyvind, I'm not Tyler, but perhaps I'll do:
> http://mindview.net/Books/DownloadSites/
>
> On 7/1/10, Øyvind Lode <oyvind.lode@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Tyler:
>> Where can I buy an accessible version of this book?
>> I don't have access to Safari or Bookshare.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tyler
>> Littlefield
>> Sent: 1. juli 2010 18:50
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Programming Preferences Was RE: I feel like giving up on
>> programming altogether!
>>
>> Thinking in c++ by bruce eckel is an awesome book, skip the first chapter
>> about object oritentation because just starting out, it will make no
> sense,
>> and come back to that later.
>>               Thanks,
>> Tyler Littlefield
>>       http://tds-solutions.net
>>       Twitter: sorressean
>>
>> On Jul 1, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Ken Perry wrote:
>>
>>> actually there are a lot of them but they don't have to be blind
> friendly.
>>> IN fact if you can get a hold of the Coronado c and c++ tutorials they
> are
>>> both about 12 chapters and yes you will even learn pointers from them.  I
>>> think Jamal has a list of programming tutorials not sure though.  I will
>> see
>>> if I can dig up the ones I suggest but I am currently at work.
>>>
>>> ken
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Øyvind Lode
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 11:11 AM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: RE: Programming Preferences Was RE: I feel like giving up on
>>> programming altogether!
>>>
>>> Joseph:
>>> A wonderful thought I must say :)
>>> I'd love to see a blind friendly tutorial in C/C++ that starts from the
>>> beginning.
>>> I don't mind using command lines and text editors.
>>> In fact I prefer it.
>>> But the tutorials I found for C# starts with designing a form in VS and
>>> dropping some buttons etc on it...
>>> So please make these tutorials a reality :)
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
>>> Sent: 1. juli 2010 16:05
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: RE: Programming Preferences Was RE: I feel like giving up on
>>> programming altogether!
>>>
>>> Hi Ken and others,
>>> Something to consider; How about if we can write quite a few blind
>> friendly
>>> tutorials on programming? That way there would be a specific resource for
>>> beginners to learn how to program from blindness perspective. Just a
>>> thought.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:56 AM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: RE: Programming Preferences Was RE: I feel like giving up on
>>> programming altogether!
>>>
>>> I could if you want to learn.  I actually have taught it before and I had
>>> the best teacher back in 1991 he worked for Word Perfect and I have never
>>> forgot his classes.
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 8:23 AM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: RE: Programming Preferences Was RE: I feel like giving up on
>>> programming altogether!
>>>
>>> Hi Ken,
>>> If you can teach me how pointers and references work, I will consider you
>> a
>>> genius.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> Jim Homme,
>>> Usability Services,
>>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
>>> Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility
>>> here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stanzel,
> Susan
>> -
>>> Kansas City, MO
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:40 AM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: RE: Programming Preferences Was RE: I feel like giving up on
>>> programming altogether!
>>>
>>> Hi Listers,
>>>
>>> I have been a COBOL programmer since graduating from college in 1971. I
>> got
>>> a business degree with an emphasis in computer science after taking all
> 31
>>> hours offered in those days. My second job has been working for the
> United
>>> States Department of Agriculture since 1974. Most of this time has been
>>> using COBOL and a very easy language called Easytrieve which could make
>>> quick searches of files and then reports. Off and on since 2001 I have
>> been
>>> trying to learn Java. Two years ago I went to a new place within
>> Agriculture
>>> and my boss has been very supportive. I had the luxury of coding in
>> NotePad
>>> which really taught me to put in all the brackets, braces, and
> parenthesis
>>> in the right place. Now I am trying to use Eclipse because that is the
> ide
>>> of choice. Saying all this is to only say that a basic education will
>> never
>>> hurt you. To get a programming position using Java in the United States
>> will
>>> need Java certification. In my experience you must make sure you have as
>>> much education as possible with the highest grades and certification to
>> get
>>> a job. Being blind you must prove you are among the best and the
> brightest
>>> to find work. I can't imagine learning any of this as a hobby. (grin).
>>>
>>> Susie Stanzel
>>> Programmer U.S.D.A. in Kansas City Missouri
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:26 AM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Programming Preferences Was RE: I feel like giving up on
>>> programming altogether!
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> With Visual Basic, you can put the statement
>>> option explicit
>>> At the beginning of your program, and the compiler will force you to
>> declare
>>> variables.
>>>
>>> Also, if you get one of the fruit basket programs, you will see how some
>> of
>>> the code behind the IDE works.
>>>
>>> So your statement about the evils of VB and buttons and controls in  an
>> IDE
>>> are not completely accurate, but, I agree with you that if you take away
>>> that part of the learning curve, that it's easier to program when you are
>>> concentrating on your code.
>>>
>>> But I can also see that some of what Rick says is valid. The IDE puts in
>>> code for you that you'd have to keep a book open to find and learn to
> use,
>>> and it knows which files to hook together when you make the various
>> projects
>>> and it helps organize your code. That's very convenient, but it doesn't
>>> teach you how some of the  code works.
>>>
>>> Ken, I tried to go from Cobol to C++ back in the Borland C++ days, and I
>>> didn't make it over the hump, so I admire you for learning that language.
>> I
>>> felt that no matter how hard I tried, I just wasn't ready to do pointers
>> and
>>> learn classes and garbage collection and whatever else that goes with it.
>>>
>>> I learned HTML by using FrontPage and NoteTab and letting them generate
>> the
>>> code, then seeing it, and realizing that it wasn't that difficult. After
>>> that, I started doing it by hand. Because I learned to code HTML by hand,
>> I
>>> understand it, and I understand what a program that generates it is doing
>> to
>>> it. I have the best of both worlds, I can generate some to save time, and
>> I
>>> can write some by hand when I want it just right.
>>>
>>> So I say that whatever learning style works best for you is just fine, as
>>> long as you don't talk yourself out of learning.
>>>
>>> I kind of started to sneak up on learning about objects by using
>> LotusScript
>>> to call methods and get properties of Lotus Notes objects, and I also
> have
>>> made several attempts at Python, but so far, I've talked myself out of
>> going
>>> the whole way for whatever reason.
>>>
>>> I think that we can do whatever we talk ourselves into doing. And I think
>> we
>>> can give up just because we tell ourselves that something is too hard.
> But
>> I
>>> think we can trick ourselves into succeeding by just doing the first
>> thing,
>>> then the next, then the next, until before we realize it, we've done a
> big
>>> thing.
>>>
>>> So perhaps the approach would be to learn a language of choice with the
>> use
>>> of a text editor, while learning enough about the compiler to understand
>>> what it's trying to tell you. Then, if you decide to switch over to an
>> IDE,
>>> you will understand more of what it's trying to do, and in the long run,
>>> save yourself some hair pulling.
>>>
>>> As far as building forms goes, Jamal has made it a lot easier for all of
>> us
>>> to do that with Layout By Code. So those of us, hint to Jim, who say that
>>> they want to learn a language and do some programming are quickly running
>>> out of excuses.
>>>
>>> We have JAWS and Window-eyes scripts for Visual Studio, and we have a
>> doable
>>> environment with a plain old editor, so let's make a pact to just do it.
>>>
>>> I'm in.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> Jim Homme,
>>> Usability Services,
>>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
>>> Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility
>>> here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf of Alex Midence
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 12:19 AM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
>>>
>>> Hi, folks,
>>>
>>> This thread hit sorta close to home for me.  As I have mentioned
>>> Before, I, myself, am learning how to code and I decided to hop out of
>>> the proverbial airplane because my language of choice is c++.  I began
>>> with visual studio simply because it was the first compiler and ide I
>>> found that was easy to get to in google and that was free.  I figured
>>> it'd work best because it was made by the very people who made the
>>> operating system.  I then attempted to apply what I was learning from
>>> various tutorials in this ide and came to a screeching halt because it
>>> turns out that this ide doesn't produce "standard c++" unleass you
>>> tweak it.  All the tutorials I was following teach standard c++.  I
>>> then hauled off and got eclipse only to find I needed a compiler to go
>>> with it.  Went and got myself minGw and was still not able to compile
>>> because I needed to mess with settings in the eclipse ide that I was
>>> unfamiliar with to let it know where the compiler was and which one to
>>> use.  It wasn't until I just went in and actually wrote my code into a
>>> no frills text editor (notepad, yes, notepad), saved my file as cpp
>>> and then compiled in a command line that I got my program to work.  I
>>> learned a whole lot on the way and look forward to learning more.  The
>>> most fundamental lesson I learned was to just work with the raw code
>>> and command line compiler first before jumping into these ide's.  This
>>> lets me focus on just the language, what it's doing, how it's doig it
>>> and the act of compiling it.  I don't have to worry about a
>>> potentially inaccessible piece of software cutting into my learning of
>>> the code.  And, it appears I'll get a fuller understanding of what's
>>> actually going on because I'm doing so much of it by hand.  It's like
>>> making yourself a batch of refried beans starting with the raw beans,
>>> cooking them in a pot and then frying them afterwards.  You did it all
>>> from scratch instead of just grabbing a can of beans, opening it up
>>> and heating it up on the stove before serving.  Best of all, my
>>> programs have so far worked like the tutorials said they would.  So,
>>> Jess, my advice to you is this:
>>>
>>> Get yourself a nice text editor like edSharp, text pad, ps pad or,
>>> even notepad which you already have.  Then, go get yourself a free
>>> compiler in the language you choose.  I chose c++ because it seems to
>>> really force you to learn some nuts and bolts and doesn't have the
>>> feel of some wussy gussied up toy language like visual basic with
>>> pretty buttons and nice forms and icons and all that mess.  It's also
>>> the language that a huge number of applications are written in which
>>> leads me to believe that, once I am done learning the basics, I'll be
>>> able to really do something with it in exchange for all my  bloodsweat
>>> and tears.  You choose whatever one you feel you want to though but,
>>> just stick to the text editor and compiler method for your first
>>> handful of programs and you'll be better off.  Whatever you do,
>>> though, don't give up over visual studio.
>>>
>>> Just my two cents as a fellow neophyte.  Hang in there.
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/30/10, Tyler Littlefield <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> It won't compile actually, you missed a comma.
>>>> int main(int argc, char** argv)
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>>              Thanks,
>>>> Tyler Littlefield
>>>>      http://tds-solutions.net
>>>>      Twitter: sorressean
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 30, 2010, at 9:40 PM, Ken Perry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Um how hard is this
>>>>>
>>>>> //myfile.c
>>>>> #include <stdlib.h>
>>>>> #include <stdio.h>
>>>>> Int main (int argc char *arv)
>>>>> {
>>>>> Printf ("hello world");
>>>>> Return (0);
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> Gcc myfile.c -o myfile
>>>>>
>>>>> There I just wrote a program that will compile in this email.  I didn't
>>>>> need
>>>>> an ide I didn't need to drop buttons what I could focus on was the
> code.
>>>>> The problem is you are confusing learning to code with learning to
>>> program
>>>>> applications.  Sure I don't want to start my first full blown
>> application
>>>>> writing it at the command line creating the graphical widgets etc.  I
> do
>>>>> how
>>>>> ever want to start with a simple step by step method.  I could write a
>>>>> simple program to take input in only a couple more lines of code and
> see
>>>>> the
>>>>> results instantly.  If I get errors the errors would pop up instantly
>> you
>>>>> wouldn't have to hunt for the window they are in.  In c variables must
>> be
>>>>> at
>>>>> the top of every code segment or {} section.  In languages like VB and
>>> c++
>>>>> and C# you can throw in variable declarations any where.  Which is
>> easier
>>>>> to
>>>>> teach someone put your variables here or hey throw them any where and
>>> then
>>>>> try and hunt down where the error is?
>>>>>
>>>>> I could go on but I have had this argument with professors and at least
>>>>> held my own if not won from time to time.  Its great if all you want to
>>> do
>>>>> is make a sited person happy that they made a simple application but if
>>>>> you
>>>>> really trying to teach them to code and to continue to learn to code
>> then
>>>>> you shouldn't lose them in the manusia before they understand what they
>>>>> are
>>>>> doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I chalange you to teach me to write a visual basic application in
>> the
>>>>> next email you write to this list.  Make it write a message to the
>> screen
>>>>> and do it from the IDE.  See how many steps you have to explain.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ken
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jackie
>>> McBride
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 11:10 PM
>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, Ken, as I see it, programming is divided into 2 major areas:
>>>>> 1) Learning to think/problem-solve in the way the computer does; & then
>>>>> 2) Learning whatever language u need that will fit the sort of
>>>>> applications you're coding.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a tough road to do both at the same time, & it's why I recommend
>>>>> learning something easier at first, e.g., basic, Python, etc. Once
>>>>> folks kind of get the concepts of how to use the compiler/interpreter
>>>>> & instruct the computer to do what they want, then the next logical
>>>>> progression is something like C. But I think learning C initially is
>>>>> rather like what my dad did to me when I was 4--threw me into Lake
>>>>> Michigan in 62 degree water over my head. Not fun. &, no, it did not
>>>>> teach me to swim any better or any earlier, believe me.
>>>>>
>>>>> In retrospect, I rather like the way I approached things--I taught
>>>>> myself Basic, which I used (& rather effectively, I might add) to sort
>>>>> patient visits by date for tax purposes when I was in practice because
>>>>> my crazy billing program didn't. Then I went on to learn C. It worked
>>>>> well. That is not to say it will work well for others. Then I got some
>>>>> formal programming training, & I believe what I'd taught myself
>>>>> previously stood me in very good stead for learning that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Each person has to go his/her own way, I guess, but I think a gentler
>>>>> intro than C is more beneficial for those who are self-taught. Just my
>>>>> $.02--& what do I know? You're the 1 making a living at it, not mwa.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/30/10, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> Actually I know someone who does professional programming who has his
>>>>> degree
>>>>>> in electronics and only took two coding classes which he could have
>>>>>> taught
>>>>>> when he took hem.  College is not all it's cracked up to be but that
> is
>>>>>> another argument.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand that Jess is using vs but that don't mean he or she has
>> to.
>>>>> In
>>>>>> fact I ended up having to learn the Microsoft build system because the
>>> VS
>>>>>> ide wouldn't do the cross compile system I wanted it to  so I had to
>> get
>>>>> out
>>>>>> of VS and create the build xml file by hand which you can do.  Heck
> for
>>>>> that
>>>>>> matter you can code in VB by hand and actually use a compiler which
>> gets
>>>>> you
>>>>>> out of the graphical IDE and lets you learn to code.  In fact you can
>>>>>> find
>>>>> a
>>>>>> few examples of this up on the fruit basket page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 10:29 PM
>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Ken: Jes said he is working in the VS IDE already. I don't know if
>> it
>>>>> is
>>>>>> for school, for work or just for fun. OK, let me set my point clear...
>> A
>>>>>> person needs to get a good University Education in Computer
> Programming
>>>>>> or
>>>>> a
>>>>>>
>>>>>> related field to work in that arena. You can not become a Professional
>>>>>> Programmer by playing with Visual Studio. You can, however, get help
> on
>>>>> list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> with Visual Studio and it is fine, if you have the patients, for
>>> learning
>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>> do some programming as a hobbyist. The things we never talk about to
>>>>>> nubes
>>>>>> is the process of learning to turn a step by step analysis of solving
>>>>>> business, engineering or technical problems into computer code. That
> is
>>>>>> where a University Education comes in.. Once that skill is mastered
>> then
>>>>> it
>>>>>> becomes a matter of learning a Programming Language and coding up a
>>>>>> solution. Using a IDE is just a time saving step after you have done
>> the
>>>>>> former learning processes. When I see someone asking to learn to
> become
>>> a
>>>>>> Computer Programmer by reading books and learning on their own I
> assume
>>>>> they
>>>>>>
>>>>>> are trying to do it as a hobby. I can't imagine anyone in their right
>>>>>> mind
>>>>>> would seriously consider trying to learn to become a Professional
>>>>>> Computer
>>>>>> Programmer and compete in the Job Market without a formal education -
>> it
>>>>>> just seems like so much nonsense. There might be one or two out there
>>> who
>>>>>> did it that way but 99+ percent have taken University Courses if they
>>>>>> work
>>>>>> in the field. Jes said he was working on a project in VS IDE, having
>>>>>> problems and the process I outlined just touched bases with the things
>>> he
>>>>>> needed to ensure he did, and did correctly, to get his project up and
>>>>>> running. The blurb about learning Programming ie... IPO, was just to
>>>>>> start
>>>>>> the brain working in thinking about inputs, outputs and Processing as
> 3
>>>>>> things that need to be done, sigh, and even that is diferent in
> today's
>>>>> OOP
>>>>>> world.
>>>>>> Rick USA.
>>>>>> Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:47 PM
>>>>>> Subject: RE: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am sorry Rick but this is what is wrong with most coders coming out
>>> of
>>>>>>> college now days.  They code by the drop button and create if
>> statement
>>>>>>> method.  Have you actually looked at Job listings.  A person that
>>> learns
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> code the way you just laid out whether they be sited or blind will be
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> bottom of the barrel.  Some jobs asks for Visual studio but a monkey
>>> can
>>>>>>> make a form and add an if statement to it to make a button do
>>> something.
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>> a person wants to be a coder they need to be make sure they are not
>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>> themselves where they can be put out by some new AI programming
>>> language
>>>>>>> that can make the forms straight from  a design chart created by a
>>>>>>> secretary.  That type of coding can be done by anyone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Colleges switched to GUI environments to make money because any sited
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> can create a half baked program with them.  They did the same thing
> to
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> electronics field with places like ITT and other tech schools that
>>>>>>> taught
>>>>>>> half baked electronics.  Now I am not saying a good electronics
> person
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> good coder can't come from the easy road what I am saying is it is
>> much
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> unlikely that one will.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If on the other hand you start with a compiled language or an
>> assembled
>>>>>>> language you will understand what is going on.  You shouldn't even
>>> worry
>>>>>>> about the GUI till you know how programs are logically put together
>> and
>>>>>>> why.
>>>>>>> Otherwise we are going to need that 48 core computer and 12 TB of ram
>>>>> just
>>>>>>> to run the next text editor because we as coders are getting
>> slipperier
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> messier because we don't understand what is going on under the
> engine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway I have ranted enough but a person that is just getting started
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> be better to start in straight C and learn what memory was, how to
>> deal
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> pointers, and understand what a register is because in the long run
> if
>>>>>>> you're really going to be a coder not a monkey dialog maker you will
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> that information and if you think you have become a coder by creating
>>>>> some
>>>>>>> monkey dialogs you will find yourself very screwed when you take that
>>>>>>> job
>>>>>>> you are not even close to ready for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> RicksPlace
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:18 PM
>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First, Programming in today's world is a world apart from where we
> use
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be. It is so much simpler in some ways and light years more complex
> in
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ways. Programming in the Visual Studio IDE takes a large learning
>>> curve.
>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> need to install and configure that puppy. Fail to do this and you
>> will
>>>>> be
>>>>>>> hearing more junk and losing focus more than an intrevert at a rock
>>>>>>> concert.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is a pain itself. Then, if you run JAWS you need to configure
>>> JAWS,
>>>>>>> again better get it right. Then after you get all that done you can
>>> open
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IDE and look at a bunch of buttons and dialogs that have seemingly
>>>>> nothing
>>>>>>> to do with creating a computer program using computer statements.
> And,
>>>>> God
>>>>>>> Forbid, You try and download and install Sql Server Express, well,
> you
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> be headed for gray hair if you are one of the lucky few who get that
>>>>>>> far.
>>>>>>> You absolutely  need to configure the IDE for accessibility, pick the
>>>>>>> ssimpelest language, vb.net, to start with and create your first
> Hello
>>>>>>> World
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Form from the Form1 file. That is after you create a new project of
>> the
>>>>>>> Windows Forms type. Then you can drop a couple of buttons, a textbox
>> or
>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the Form1 designer, set their properties and code the related VB Code
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the Button Click Events and mess with the Text Properties of the
>>>>>>> TextBoxes.
>>>>>>> If you get that far you will be on your way to learning to Program in
>>>>>>> Visual
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Studio. I would start with the Vb.net Express module since it does
> not
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> all the other languages and is just a little cleaner to start with.
>>> Once
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> get the nack of making a form do things like Display Output to a
> user,
>>>>>>> Read
>>>>>>> Inputs from a user and do some Processing on the input, you have the
>>>>> basic
>>>>>>> understanding of what computer programming is really about IPO, Input
>> /
>>>>>>> Process / Output. If you jump into C++, Visual Studio IDE and a DB
> you
>>>>> are
>>>>>>> jumping out of an airplane and flapping as hard as you can but you
> can
>>>>>>> pretty much guess the final result. But, Give Up? Did We Give Up when
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor? No, when the going gets tough - the
> tough
>>>>> ask
>>>>>>> questions on list and follow up with more work!
>>>>>>> Rick USA
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Jes" <theeternalkid@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 1:59 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All I get when using visual studio are nothing but errors! I just
> want
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> able to write a program and have it work! Just once! But no. All I
> get
>>>>> are
>>>>>>> errors! So what's the use in even trying? Encouragement needed badly!
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>> Jes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Change the world--1 deed at a time
>>>>> Jackie McBride
>>>>> Scripting Classes: http://jawsscripting.lonsdalemedia.org
>>>>> homePage: www.abletec.serverheaven.net
>>>>> For technophobes: www.technophoeb.com
>>>>> __________
>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>
>>>>> __________
>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________
>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>
>>>>
>>> __________
>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>
>>>
>>> This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and are intended
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>>> necessarily represent the views of Highmark Inc., its subsidiaries, or
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>>> __________
>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>
>>> __________
>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>
>>> __________
>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>
>>> __________
>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
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>>> __________
>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>
>>>
>>> __________
>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>
>>> __________
>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>
>>
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>
>>
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Change the world--1 deed at a time
> Jackie McBride
> Scripting Classes: http://jawsscripting.lonsdalemedia.org
> homePage: www.abletec.serverheaven.net
> For technophobes: www.technophoeb.com
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
>
__________
View the list's information and change your settings at
//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind

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