Re: Programming Preferences Was RE: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!

  • From: Jackie McBride <abletec@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 12:22:16 -0700

Oyvind, I'm not Tyler, but perhaps I'll do:
http://mindview.net/Books/DownloadSites/

On 7/1/10, Øyvind Lode <oyvind.lode@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Tyler:
> Where can I buy an accessible version of this book?
> I don't have access to Safari or Bookshare.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tyler
> Littlefield
> Sent: 1. juli 2010 18:50
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Programming Preferences Was RE: I feel like giving up on
> programming altogether!
>
> Thinking in c++ by bruce eckel is an awesome book, skip the first chapter
> about object oritentation because just starting out, it will make no sense,
> and come back to that later.
>               Thanks,
> Tyler Littlefield
>       http://tds-solutions.net
>       Twitter: sorressean
>
> On Jul 1, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Ken Perry wrote:
>
>> actually there are a lot of them but they don't have to be blind friendly.
>> IN fact if you can get a hold of the Coronado c and c++ tutorials they are
>> both about 12 chapters and yes you will even learn pointers from them.  I
>> think Jamal has a list of programming tutorials not sure though.  I will
> see
>> if I can dig up the ones I suggest but I am currently at work.
>>
>> ken
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Øyvind Lode
>> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 11:11 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: Programming Preferences Was RE: I feel like giving up on
>> programming altogether!
>>
>> Joseph:
>> A wonderful thought I must say :)
>> I'd love to see a blind friendly tutorial in C/C++ that starts from the
>> beginning.
>> I don't mind using command lines and text editors.
>> In fact I prefer it.
>> But the tutorials I found for C# starts with designing a form in VS and
>> dropping some buttons etc on it...
>> So please make these tutorials a reality :)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
>> Sent: 1. juli 2010 16:05
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: Programming Preferences Was RE: I feel like giving up on
>> programming altogether!
>>
>> Hi Ken and others,
>> Something to consider; How about if we can write quite a few blind
> friendly
>> tutorials on programming? That way there would be a specific resource for
>> beginners to learn how to program from blindness perspective. Just a
>> thought.
>> Cheers,
>> Joseph
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
>> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:56 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: Programming Preferences Was RE: I feel like giving up on
>> programming altogether!
>>
>> I could if you want to learn.  I actually have taught it before and I had
>> the best teacher back in 1991 he worked for Word Perfect and I have never
>> forgot his classes.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James
>> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 8:23 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: Programming Preferences Was RE: I feel like giving up on
>> programming altogether!
>>
>> Hi Ken,
>> If you can teach me how pointers and references work, I will consider you
> a
>> genius.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> Jim Homme,
>> Usability Services,
>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
>> Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility
>> here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stanzel, Susan
> -
>> Kansas City, MO
>> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:40 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: Programming Preferences Was RE: I feel like giving up on
>> programming altogether!
>>
>> Hi Listers,
>>
>> I have been a COBOL programmer since graduating from college in 1971. I
> got
>> a business degree with an emphasis in computer science after taking all 31
>> hours offered in those days. My second job has been working for the United
>> States Department of Agriculture since 1974. Most of this time has been
>> using COBOL and a very easy language called Easytrieve which could make
>> quick searches of files and then reports. Off and on since 2001 I have
> been
>> trying to learn Java. Two years ago I went to a new place within
> Agriculture
>> and my boss has been very supportive. I had the luxury of coding in
> NotePad
>> which really taught me to put in all the brackets, braces, and parenthesis
>> in the right place. Now I am trying to use Eclipse because that is the ide
>> of choice. Saying all this is to only say that a basic education will
> never
>> hurt you. To get a programming position using Java in the United States
> will
>> need Java certification. In my experience you must make sure you have as
>> much education as possible with the highest grades and certification to
> get
>> a job. Being blind you must prove you are among the best and the brightest
>> to find work. I can't imagine learning any of this as a hobby. (grin).
>>
>> Susie Stanzel
>> Programmer U.S.D.A. in Kansas City Missouri
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James
>> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:26 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Programming Preferences Was RE: I feel like giving up on
>> programming altogether!
>>
>> Hi,
>> With Visual Basic, you can put the statement
>> option explicit
>> At the beginning of your program, and the compiler will force you to
> declare
>> variables.
>>
>> Also, if you get one of the fruit basket programs, you will see how some
> of
>> the code behind the IDE works.
>>
>> So your statement about the evils of VB and buttons and controls in  an
> IDE
>> are not completely accurate, but, I agree with you that if you take away
>> that part of the learning curve, that it's easier to program when you are
>> concentrating on your code.
>>
>> But I can also see that some of what Rick says is valid. The IDE puts in
>> code for you that you'd have to keep a book open to find and learn to use,
>> and it knows which files to hook together when you make the various
> projects
>> and it helps organize your code. That's very convenient, but it doesn't
>> teach you how some of the  code works.
>>
>> Ken, I tried to go from Cobol to C++ back in the Borland C++ days, and I
>> didn't make it over the hump, so I admire you for learning that language.
> I
>> felt that no matter how hard I tried, I just wasn't ready to do pointers
> and
>> learn classes and garbage collection and whatever else that goes with it.
>>
>> I learned HTML by using FrontPage and NoteTab and letting them generate
> the
>> code, then seeing it, and realizing that it wasn't that difficult. After
>> that, I started doing it by hand. Because I learned to code HTML by hand,
> I
>> understand it, and I understand what a program that generates it is doing
> to
>> it. I have the best of both worlds, I can generate some to save time, and
> I
>> can write some by hand when I want it just right.
>>
>> So I say that whatever learning style works best for you is just fine, as
>> long as you don't talk yourself out of learning.
>>
>> I kind of started to sneak up on learning about objects by using
> LotusScript
>> to call methods and get properties of Lotus Notes objects, and I also have
>> made several attempts at Python, but so far, I've talked myself out of
> going
>> the whole way for whatever reason.
>>
>> I think that we can do whatever we talk ourselves into doing. And I think
> we
>> can give up just because we tell ourselves that something is too hard. But
> I
>> think we can trick ourselves into succeeding by just doing the first
> thing,
>> then the next, then the next, until before we realize it, we've done a big
>> thing.
>>
>> So perhaps the approach would be to learn a language of choice with the
> use
>> of a text editor, while learning enough about the compiler to understand
>> what it's trying to tell you. Then, if you decide to switch over to an
> IDE,
>> you will understand more of what it's trying to do, and in the long run,
>> save yourself some hair pulling.
>>
>> As far as building forms goes, Jamal has made it a lot easier for all of
> us
>> to do that with Layout By Code. So those of us, hint to Jim, who say that
>> they want to learn a language and do some programming are quickly running
>> out of excuses.
>>
>> We have JAWS and Window-eyes scripts for Visual Studio, and we have a
> doable
>> environment with a plain old editor, so let's make a pact to just do it.
>>
>> I'm in.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> Jim Homme,
>> Usability Services,
>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
>> Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility
>> here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf of Alex Midence
>> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 12:19 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
>>
>> Hi, folks,
>>
>> This thread hit sorta close to home for me.  As I have mentioned
>> Before, I, myself, am learning how to code and I decided to hop out of
>> the proverbial airplane because my language of choice is c++.  I began
>> with visual studio simply because it was the first compiler and ide I
>> found that was easy to get to in google and that was free.  I figured
>> it'd work best because it was made by the very people who made the
>> operating system.  I then attempted to apply what I was learning from
>> various tutorials in this ide and came to a screeching halt because it
>> turns out that this ide doesn't produce "standard c++" unleass you
>> tweak it.  All the tutorials I was following teach standard c++.  I
>> then hauled off and got eclipse only to find I needed a compiler to go
>> with it.  Went and got myself minGw and was still not able to compile
>> because I needed to mess with settings in the eclipse ide that I was
>> unfamiliar with to let it know where the compiler was and which one to
>> use.  It wasn't until I just went in and actually wrote my code into a
>> no frills text editor (notepad, yes, notepad), saved my file as cpp
>> and then compiled in a command line that I got my program to work.  I
>> learned a whole lot on the way and look forward to learning more.  The
>> most fundamental lesson I learned was to just work with the raw code
>> and command line compiler first before jumping into these ide's.  This
>> lets me focus on just the language, what it's doing, how it's doig it
>> and the act of compiling it.  I don't have to worry about a
>> potentially inaccessible piece of software cutting into my learning of
>> the code.  And, it appears I'll get a fuller understanding of what's
>> actually going on because I'm doing so much of it by hand.  It's like
>> making yourself a batch of refried beans starting with the raw beans,
>> cooking them in a pot and then frying them afterwards.  You did it all
>> from scratch instead of just grabbing a can of beans, opening it up
>> and heating it up on the stove before serving.  Best of all, my
>> programs have so far worked like the tutorials said they would.  So,
>> Jess, my advice to you is this:
>>
>> Get yourself a nice text editor like edSharp, text pad, ps pad or,
>> even notepad which you already have.  Then, go get yourself a free
>> compiler in the language you choose.  I chose c++ because it seems to
>> really force you to learn some nuts and bolts and doesn't have the
>> feel of some wussy gussied up toy language like visual basic with
>> pretty buttons and nice forms and icons and all that mess.  It's also
>> the language that a huge number of applications are written in which
>> leads me to believe that, once I am done learning the basics, I'll be
>> able to really do something with it in exchange for all my  bloodsweat
>> and tears.  You choose whatever one you feel you want to though but,
>> just stick to the text editor and compiler method for your first
>> handful of programs and you'll be better off.  Whatever you do,
>> though, don't give up over visual studio.
>>
>> Just my two cents as a fellow neophyte.  Hang in there.
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>> On 6/30/10, Tyler Littlefield <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> It won't compile actually, you missed a comma.
>>> int main(int argc, char** argv)
>>> :)
>>>
>>>              Thanks,
>>> Tyler Littlefield
>>>      http://tds-solutions.net
>>>      Twitter: sorressean
>>>
>>> On Jun 30, 2010, at 9:40 PM, Ken Perry wrote:
>>>
>>>> Um how hard is this
>>>>
>>>> //myfile.c
>>>> #include <stdlib.h>
>>>> #include <stdio.h>
>>>> Int main (int argc char *arv)
>>>> {
>>>> Printf ("hello world");
>>>> Return (0);
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> Gcc myfile.c -o myfile
>>>>
>>>> There I just wrote a program that will compile in this email.  I didn't
>>>> need
>>>> an ide I didn't need to drop buttons what I could focus on was the code.
>>>> The problem is you are confusing learning to code with learning to
>> program
>>>> applications.  Sure I don't want to start my first full blown
> application
>>>> writing it at the command line creating the graphical widgets etc.  I do
>>>> how
>>>> ever want to start with a simple step by step method.  I could write a
>>>> simple program to take input in only a couple more lines of code and see
>>>> the
>>>> results instantly.  If I get errors the errors would pop up instantly
> you
>>>> wouldn't have to hunt for the window they are in.  In c variables must
> be
>>>> at
>>>> the top of every code segment or {} section.  In languages like VB and
>> c++
>>>> and C# you can throw in variable declarations any where.  Which is
> easier
>>>> to
>>>> teach someone put your variables here or hey throw them any where and
>> then
>>>> try and hunt down where the error is?
>>>>
>>>> I could go on but I have had this argument with professors and at least
>>>> held my own if not won from time to time.  Its great if all you want to
>> do
>>>> is make a sited person happy that they made a simple application but if
>>>> you
>>>> really trying to teach them to code and to continue to learn to code
> then
>>>> you shouldn't lose them in the manusia before they understand what they
>>>> are
>>>> doing.
>>>>
>>>> Now I chalange you to teach me to write a visual basic application in
> the
>>>> next email you write to this list.  Make it write a message to the
> screen
>>>> and do it from the IDE.  See how many steps you have to explain.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ken
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jackie
>> McBride
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 11:10 PM
>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
>>>>
>>>> Well, Ken, as I see it, programming is divided into 2 major areas:
>>>> 1) Learning to think/problem-solve in the way the computer does; & then
>>>> 2) Learning whatever language u need that will fit the sort of
>>>> applications you're coding.
>>>>
>>>> It's a tough road to do both at the same time, & it's why I recommend
>>>> learning something easier at first, e.g., basic, Python, etc. Once
>>>> folks kind of get the concepts of how to use the compiler/interpreter
>>>> & instruct the computer to do what they want, then the next logical
>>>> progression is something like C. But I think learning C initially is
>>>> rather like what my dad did to me when I was 4--threw me into Lake
>>>> Michigan in 62 degree water over my head. Not fun. &, no, it did not
>>>> teach me to swim any better or any earlier, believe me.
>>>>
>>>> In retrospect, I rather like the way I approached things--I taught
>>>> myself Basic, which I used (& rather effectively, I might add) to sort
>>>> patient visits by date for tax purposes when I was in practice because
>>>> my crazy billing program didn't. Then I went on to learn C. It worked
>>>> well. That is not to say it will work well for others. Then I got some
>>>> formal programming training, & I believe what I'd taught myself
>>>> previously stood me in very good stead for learning that.
>>>>
>>>> Each person has to go his/her own way, I guess, but I think a gentler
>>>> intro than C is more beneficial for those who are self-taught. Just my
>>>> $.02--& what do I know? You're the 1 making a living at it, not mwa.
>>>>
>>>> On 6/30/10, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> Actually I know someone who does professional programming who has his
>>>> degree
>>>>> in electronics and only took two coding classes which he could have
>>>>> taught
>>>>> when he took hem.  College is not all it's cracked up to be but that is
>>>>> another argument.
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand that Jess is using vs but that don't mean he or she has
> to.
>>>> In
>>>>> fact I ended up having to learn the Microsoft build system because the
>> VS
>>>>> ide wouldn't do the cross compile system I wanted it to  so I had to
> get
>>>> out
>>>>> of VS and create the build xml file by hand which you can do.  Heck for
>>>> that
>>>>> matter you can code in VB by hand and actually use a compiler which
> gets
>>>> you
>>>>> out of the graphical IDE and lets you learn to code.  In fact you can
>>>>> find
>>>> a
>>>>> few examples of this up on the fruit basket page.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 10:29 PM
>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Ken: Jes said he is working in the VS IDE already. I don't know if
> it
>>>> is
>>>>> for school, for work or just for fun. OK, let me set my point clear...
> A
>>>>> person needs to get a good University Education in Computer Programming
>>>>> or
>>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>> related field to work in that arena. You can not become a Professional
>>>>> Programmer by playing with Visual Studio. You can, however, get help on
>>>> list
>>>>>
>>>>> with Visual Studio and it is fine, if you have the patients, for
>> learning
>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>> do some programming as a hobbyist. The things we never talk about to
>>>>> nubes
>>>>> is the process of learning to turn a step by step analysis of solving
>>>>> business, engineering or technical problems into computer code. That is
>>>>> where a University Education comes in.. Once that skill is mastered
> then
>>>> it
>>>>> becomes a matter of learning a Programming Language and coding up a
>>>>> solution. Using a IDE is just a time saving step after you have done
> the
>>>>> former learning processes. When I see someone asking to learn to become
>> a
>>>>> Computer Programmer by reading books and learning on their own I assume
>>>> they
>>>>>
>>>>> are trying to do it as a hobby. I can't imagine anyone in their right
>>>>> mind
>>>>> would seriously consider trying to learn to become a Professional
>>>>> Computer
>>>>> Programmer and compete in the Job Market without a formal education -
> it
>>>>> just seems like so much nonsense. There might be one or two out there
>> who
>>>>> did it that way but 99+ percent have taken University Courses if they
>>>>> work
>>>>> in the field. Jes said he was working on a project in VS IDE, having
>>>>> problems and the process I outlined just touched bases with the things
>> he
>>>>> needed to ensure he did, and did correctly, to get his project up and
>>>>> running. The blurb about learning Programming ie... IPO, was just to
>>>>> start
>>>>> the brain working in thinking about inputs, outputs and Processing as 3
>>>>> things that need to be done, sigh, and even that is diferent in today's
>>>> OOP
>>>>> world.
>>>>> Rick USA.
>>>>> Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:47 PM
>>>>> Subject: RE: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am sorry Rick but this is what is wrong with most coders coming out
>> of
>>>>>> college now days.  They code by the drop button and create if
> statement
>>>>>> method.  Have you actually looked at Job listings.  A person that
>> learns
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> code the way you just laid out whether they be sited or blind will be
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> bottom of the barrel.  Some jobs asks for Visual studio but a monkey
>> can
>>>>>> make a form and add an if statement to it to make a button do
>> something.
>>>>>> If
>>>>>> a person wants to be a coder they need to be make sure they are not
>>>>>> getting
>>>>>> themselves where they can be put out by some new AI programming
>> language
>>>>>> that can make the forms straight from  a design chart created by a
>>>>>> secretary.  That type of coding can be done by anyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Colleges switched to GUI environments to make money because any sited
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> can create a half baked program with them.  They did the same thing to
>>>> the
>>>>>> electronics field with places like ITT and other tech schools that
>>>>>> taught
>>>>>> half baked electronics.  Now I am not saying a good electronics person
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> good coder can't come from the easy road what I am saying is it is
> much
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> unlikely that one will.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If on the other hand you start with a compiled language or an
> assembled
>>>>>> language you will understand what is going on.  You shouldn't even
>> worry
>>>>>> about the GUI till you know how programs are logically put together
> and
>>>>>> why.
>>>>>> Otherwise we are going to need that 48 core computer and 12 TB of ram
>>>> just
>>>>>> to run the next text editor because we as coders are getting
> slipperier
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> messier because we don't understand what is going on under the engine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway I have ranted enough but a person that is just getting started
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be better to start in straight C and learn what memory was, how to
> deal
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> pointers, and understand what a register is because in the long run if
>>>>>> you're really going to be a coder not a monkey dialog maker you will
>>>>>> need
>>>>>> that information and if you think you have become a coder by creating
>>>> some
>>>>>> monkey dialogs you will find yourself very screwed when you take that
>>>>>> job
>>>>>> you are not even close to ready for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:18 PM
>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First, Programming in today's world is a world apart from where we use
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> be. It is so much simpler in some ways and light years more complex in
>>>>>> other
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ways. Programming in the Visual Studio IDE takes a large learning
>> curve.
>>>>>> You
>>>>>>
>>>>>> need to install and configure that puppy. Fail to do this and you
> will
>>>> be
>>>>>> hearing more junk and losing focus more than an intrevert at a rock
>>>>>> concert.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is a pain itself. Then, if you run JAWS you need to configure
>> JAWS,
>>>>>> again better get it right. Then after you get all that done you can
>> open
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IDE and look at a bunch of buttons and dialogs that have seemingly
>>>> nothing
>>>>>> to do with creating a computer program using computer statements. And,
>>>> God
>>>>>> Forbid, You try and download and install Sql Server Express, well, you
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> be headed for gray hair if you are one of the lucky few who get that
>>>>>> far.
>>>>>> You absolutely  need to configure the IDE for accessibility, pick the
>>>>>> ssimpelest language, vb.net, to start with and create your first Hello
>>>>>> World
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Form from the Form1 file. That is after you create a new project of
> the
>>>>>> Windows Forms type. Then you can drop a couple of buttons, a textbox
> or
>>>>>> 2
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the Form1 designer, set their properties and code the related VB Code
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the Button Click Events and mess with the Text Properties of the
>>>>>> TextBoxes.
>>>>>> If you get that far you will be on your way to learning to Program in
>>>>>> Visual
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Studio. I would start with the Vb.net Express module since it does not
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> all the other languages and is just a little cleaner to start with.
>> Once
>>>>>> you
>>>>>>
>>>>>> get the nack of making a form do things like Display Output to a user,
>>>>>> Read
>>>>>> Inputs from a user and do some Processing on the input, you have the
>>>> basic
>>>>>> understanding of what computer programming is really about IPO, Input
> /
>>>>>> Process / Output. If you jump into C++, Visual Studio IDE and a DB you
>>>> are
>>>>>> jumping out of an airplane and flapping as hard as you can but you can
>>>>>> pretty much guess the final result. But, Give Up? Did We Give Up when
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor? No, when the going gets tough - the tough
>>>> ask
>>>>>> questions on list and follow up with more work!
>>>>>> Rick USA
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Jes" <theeternalkid@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 1:59 PM
>>>>>> Subject: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All I get when using visual studio are nothing but errors! I just want
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> able to write a program and have it work! Just once! But no. All I get
>>>> are
>>>>>> errors! So what's the use in even trying? Encouragement needed badly!
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> Jes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> __________
>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>
>>>>> __________
>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Change the world--1 deed at a time
>>>> Jackie McBride
>>>> Scripting Classes: http://jawsscripting.lonsdalemedia.org
>>>> homePage: www.abletec.serverheaven.net
>>>> For technophobes: www.technophoeb.com
>>>> __________
>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>
>>>> __________
>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>
>>>
>>> __________
>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>
>>>
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>
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-- 
Change the world--1 deed at a time
Jackie McBride
Scripting Classes: http://jawsscripting.lonsdalemedia.org
homePage: www.abletec.serverheaven.net
For technophobes: www.technophoeb.com
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