RE: PHP Forms And self posting
- From: "D!J!X!" <megamansuperior@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 03:12:49 -0400
I have and extensively use javaScript on my sites, from ajax to validating
and checking forms etc, but i always develop with the idea in mind "what if
the user's browser doesn't have js support? Or what if they've chosen to
disable it? Or what if they're using computers in an organization like their
job or something and js is disabled for security reasons?" Then you have to
have a plan b for checking user errors, you know the golden rule, never
trust users, never trust user input. Certainly javaScript can and will
pickup these errors and the page never has to do the work itself, but what
about for those times when it does have to because js didn't catch it or a
hacker bypassed something etc?
D!J!X!
_____
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jared Wright
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 1:08 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: PHP Forms And self posting
I'm guessing that if they're using multiple pages, they're probably also
using Javascript for the error checking client side to avoid the back and
forth you described. It's just the sort of thing that scales up better on
account of being more modularized, but especially for quick hack-together
work submitting to self seems like a useful little tool to me.
On 6/1/2010 12:59 PM, D!J!X! wrote:
That's my thing, it doesn't make sense to have the page go to another page
for checking, then have that page send back all the info along with errors
if there are any, then the user fixing tha, then the page seding it back to
the processing script, then that page sending the response back etc. I
rather have the page do the error checking within itself, then when it's
error-free it can send the info off to the success page and continue from
there.
There are times when each project requires different things, for some
projects it wouldn't make sense to use a single page, for other stuff like
what i'm doing it just would be easier and more logical to use a single
page; i just want to be sure that there are no security or problems
involved. But every project requires different things.
D!J!X!
_____
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of qubit
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 1:37 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: PHP Forms And self posting
Actually it was a single large form with multiple submit buttons and a clear
button, and lots of form controls. Most of the submit buttons would go do
something with the data and come back with the form fields updated. So it
was coming back to the form. This made it natural to just reuse the same
page as the form action. There were, however, some buttons that went off and
did other things, and so required different code. Since the form on the form
page was already using itself as the form action, I had to put the code to
process the weird form actions on that same page. Thus the page had some
convoluted logic in order to implement all the buttons.
I guess it wasn't all that convoluted now that I think of it. It's just that
it was a first time writing code to do this particular thing, and some of it
started to sound like punctuation droppings with all the php and html.
It did surprise my nephew however. He went to the page and kept clicking it
but the address on top stayed the same even though he was doing different
things...*smile*
I do see why this strategy might not be recommended. It is counterintuitive
to have the same page there for everything.
Happy hacking.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: black <mailto:matematicianu2003@xxxxxxxxxxx> ares
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: PHP Forms And self posting
I see no benefits here.
I can not imagine how, processing 4 or 5 forms on a page, rewriten to use
multiple pages, can dublicate code.
But, maybe, I am not so familiarised with programming:)
----- Original Message -----
From: qubit <mailto:lauraeaves@xxxxxxxxx>
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: PHP Forms And self posting
I wrote a page once that had 4 or 5 forms processed on the same page. It was
a bit convoluted in its logic, but it also saved a lot of duplication of
certain parts of the code. I suppose I could have put that code in functions
in a header and included it on different pages, but in the end it all had
migrated onto my monolithic page. That doesn't mean I recommend this
approach; I'm only saying it has its benefits.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: D!J!X! <mailto:megamansuperior@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 3:57 AM
Subject: RE: PHP Forms And self posting
I see your point, but this is a small form, just to send email. I just want
to use the form itself to check and make sure all fields are filled out and
then if so go ahead and send the mail and send the user to the appropriate
page, and if not to display errors and take care of the issue. I have it
working as a 2-page form now, where the processing is done separately, but i
think it just makes more sense running it on 1 page and saving it all there.
D!J!X!
_____
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of black ares
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 1:53 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: PHP Forms And self posting
from a design point of view, to have one page to collect data, same page to
process it, eventualy, to have all processing of a site in a single php
script,
is wrong.
The antipatern is called god class.
The problems are:
1. Maintainability. If you want to change something you have to search/find
that portion of code to change and most times when processing of multiple
things are in the same script, the flow is no so well intuitive and changing
something could affect easily other parts.
2. Reusability, when you put all in a page/script, and if you have some
other pages/scripts needing some logic you encapsuled in that first page,
you must rewrite it, or reorganise that first page to pull out the comon
code.
For example validations like e-mails, card numbers etc, are supposed to be
used in more than one page.
3. Encapsulation, writting all in a single page/script, could easily to get
errors, because you have access at all things there and can use part of
flows inapropiate.
4. Performance, when you put all things in a script/page, the processing of
that page/script takes more time, than processing a little page.
----- Original Message -----
From: D!J!X! <mailto:megamansuperior@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 9:54 PM
Subject: RE: PHP Forms And self posting
Well one of the most prevelling arguements is not to trust anything in the
$_SERVER global, something i sort of knew and wasn't planning on doing.
Another thing i've noticed is the use php_self seems to have some issues
under apache? From what i've read people use php_self and $_SERVER together
to post back, and that's "asking for trouble." And then there is the
action="" method, which some browsers don't like, and again, i wouldn't use.
I propose a direct url to the same page for processing.
Other than that i haven't found anything that states a huge concern with
security. The data i'm sending is not sensitive like ssn or ccn or things of
that nature.
HTH, D!J!X!
_____
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jared Wright
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 3:20 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: PHP Forms And self posting
I'd be interested in anything you come up with that can explain why this
might be a bad idea. I have always used them without much hesitation.
On 5/29/2010 12:01 AM, D!J!X! wrote:
Hey guys, i'm finishing up a site here and was just wondering, i've been
reading online and it seems that some people strongly suggest against having
php forms post back to themselves for error displaying and correction and
processing. I can sort of understand why, but then again it seems that a lot
of people are using it and recommend it, w3c included. Does anybody have any
comments/opinions they can share that would help me shed some light on this
matter? Self posting would make my life easier, but i have a solution that
separates processing from the actual form page, except that there's a bit of
code involved to redisplay the form with values filled in, error messages
displayed etc. Any thoughts, comments, articles on the topic?
THX, D!J!X!
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