RE: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

  • From: "Homme, James" <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 15:12:04 -0400

Hi,
As I go along, I'd be glad to post learning segments to the list. It would 
probably help me clarify my thinking. Anyone who wants to filter out the noise 
can hit delete.

Jim

Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility 
blog<http://mysites.highmark.com/personal/lidikki/Blog/default.aspx>. Discuss 
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From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:47 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

Then you will learn Programming, not just point and click. Not a bad option and 
the one I have come to recommend for new programmers - Jamal was right all 
along.
Rick USA
----- Original Message -----
From: Homme, James<mailto:james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

Hi,
Unfortunately, security is pretty tight here, so it's going to be EdSharp or 
TextPad.

Jim

Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility 
blog<http://mysites.highmark.com/personal/lidikki/Blog/default.aspx>. Discuss 
accessibility 
here<http://collaborate.highmark.com/COP/technical/accessibility/default.aspx>. 
Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility 
advice<http://collaborate.highmark.com/COP/technical/accessibility/Accessibility%20Wiki/Forms/AllPages.aspx>

From: 
programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of qubit
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:22 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

isn't there an IDE for vb files in vs express as well as c# and the rest of the 
managed (.NET) languages? That can help you with templates of code for 
implementing various things.
Anyway, I have never used vb so can't say. But good luck learning the new 
language.
I heard a funny story about cobol once -- an American programmer was in Japan 
at a business meeting and left his group to tour a building. He discovered he 
was lost, so stepped into a room full of old computer terminals with people 
working on them (this is an old story).  Unfortunately no one in the room knew 
English.  The guy got an idea to communicate using cobol, and since there were 
cobol programmers in the room, they understood him perfectly and took him where 
he needed to go...lol
Never underestimate the usefulness of a language, even if it is cobol...;)
--le


----- Original Message -----
From: Homme, James<mailto:james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:06 AM
Subject: RE: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

Hi,
Here's why I'm asking all these questions. And this is in no particular order.

* Since I already know LotusScript, I'm going to learn Visual Basic, which 
looks very, very similar.

* To shortcut some programming Windows forms by hand, I was going to try to use 
Jamal's LBC .Net.

* As far as I know, we don't have Visual Studio as an authorized piece of 
software here, but I looked on my computer and I have folders here with what 
looks like the various command line compilers for .Net stuff.

* I was able to use EdSharp to write and compile a simple, console, hello world 
program, so I know that the compiler is hooked up.

* LBC has a dll file in the package.

* Since I'm doing everything in EdSharp and nothing in Visual Studio, I'm not 
sure where to put any dll's I might need. And I don't know how to package the 
stuff up if I need to give it to someone else.

* And there is a lot I don't even know what to ask about.

* Almost every book I'm looking at assumes I have Visual Studio, and I don't, 
so I'm pretty frustrated by now.

* And, once again, probably for the billionth time, I'm trying to sneak up on 
learning OO and relational technology.

* I'm contemplating using SQLite, because that means I don't have to mess with 
SQL Express or whatever it's called.

* I'm pretty sure I can build my program in stages so that I can learn concepts 
as I go.

I won't include the project here, but if someone wants to give me advice, we 
can take it off list, or keep it on, if it will hwlp others.

Many of you know that I have been trying to do this stuff in fits and starts 
forever, so I won't bore you with the details again, but I'm attempting to 
learn a second language as well as I used to know Cobol. Shudder.
* I got a book out on Safari yesterday called something like Visual Basic, the 
Language. It's really good, but now, I probably need a companion set of content 
that explains .Net and how the two work together.

* I also ran into a book called Core C#, that tells you how to code Windows 
Forms and so on, totally by hand. I'm not sure if I have the ability to 
translate what it says into Visual Basic or not, but the book looks good.

End of frustrated brain dump for now.

Jim

Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility 
blog<http://mysites.highmark.com/personal/lidikki/Blog/default.aspx>. Discuss 
accessibility 
here<http://collaborate.highmark.com/COP/technical/accessibility/default.aspx>. 
Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility 
advice<http://collaborate.highmark.com/COP/technical/accessibility/Accessibility%20Wiki/Forms/AllPages.aspx>

From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of qubit
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:18 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

that's the idea...
btw: what prompted the question? are you needing to use a c library somewhere?
--le

----- Original Message -----
From: Homme, James<mailto:james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 5:58 AM
Subject: RE: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

OK Laura,\
Let me try to translate. I sit down and write a file in C, for example. I 
compile that file. The C compiler turns it into something that the machine can 
read. In that file is a bunch of functions that I want to just use in other 
programs I write. The next day, I come back and whip out a program in Visual 
Basic. Visual Basic has some way of telling the compiler in my source code that 
I want to use the file I wrote yesterday with my functions in it. I do what I 
want with my C functions in my Visual Basic file. And the computer and I are 
both happy. How's that?

Jim

Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility 
blog<http://mysites.highmark.com/personal/lidikki/Blog/default.aspx>. Discuss 
accessibility 
here<http://collaborate.highmark.com/COP/technical/accessibility/default.aspx>. 
Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility 
advice<http://collaborate.highmark.com/COP/technical/accessibility/Accessibility%20Wiki/Forms/AllPages.aspx>

From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of qubit
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 6:10 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

hi jim -- no, in one language you declare a function f so you are able to call 
it, but you declare it in language A, although it is defined and implemented in 
another file in language B.
note the difference between declare and define.  define means you supply the 
body of the function, with executable statements and such.
This whole explanation presupposes a language like C or those in that family of 
languages that have strongly typed prototypes of functions or methods.
I'm sorry, the whole idea is that a method or  function is called in language 
A, but defined in language B.
--le


----- Original Message -----
From: Jim<mailto:jhomme1028@xxxxxxxxx>
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:56 PM
Subject: RE: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

Hi Laura,
So do you have to put the stuff from one language in one source file and the 
stuff from the other language in another one, or can you (I'm not sure why you 
would) put it all in one source file and say some incantation over it?

Jim

Jim Homme
Skype: jim.homme
"Every day's a gift."

From: 
programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of qubit
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 7:16 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

It depends on the languages, Jim.
Of course, in the end they all have to communicate at some level, but in the 
case of java and C, java compiles down to its own little interpreted virtual 
machine, while C compiles down to a .exe that runs on the native hardware -- so 
you have to specify "native" in the declarations in java for the functions that 
are actually implemented in C, and the whole thing somehow agrees not to crash 
your system *smile*
--le

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim<mailto:jhomme1028@xxxxxxxxx>
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:44 PM
Subject: RE: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

Hi,
I may not be saying this correctly, but here goes. I was reading a book today 
about this, and it seemed that they were saying that you write in the language 
of your choosing. Then, something takes it and translates it into something 
called a Common Intermediate language, and from there, some of the stuff gets 
put into a common runtime language and that's what makes it work for many 
languages. This is just my attempt to understand how this works. But the book I 
was reading said that most of the time you program in .Net, you're really 
learning how to use the .net framework classes. What little time you spend in a 
given language, you spend hooking things up so that the various .net stuff you 
use works on the data from your program.

How's that for babble?

Jim



Jim Homme
Skype: jim.homme
"Every day's a gift."

From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:50 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

I have not done that much. Once i had either a couple of files or Webpages 
written in vb and C#. The files just had the .vb and .cs extensions and when 
the project compiled it translated them. Other than that I'm not sure how it 
would work. I work in the Express modules which are for one language. I guess 
Visual Studio would have facillities to handle that since it has multiple 
languages but I'm not sure how you would implement it.
I know that whichever language you use it is converted into IML which is the 
same for all the .net languages. Likely the compiler reads the file extension 
and converts the source code to IML based on a translator for that language and 
then the IML is merged to create the finished translated code.
Rick USA
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim<mailto:jhomme1028@xxxxxxxxx>
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:35 PM
Subject: RE: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

Hi,
I'm one of these people who still thinks computers are part magic. How does it 
work when you have two languages in one program. Do you have two files?

Thanks.

Jim

Jim Homme
Skype: jim.homme
"Every day's a gift."

From: 
programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of qubit
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 4:22 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

lol -- imagine COBOL.NET -- sounds like an oxy moron...
I think you are right, although the languages should be able to support OO 
style in order to integrate .NET.
and if you have multiple languages in one program, you have to be sure you 
interface correctly to take into account calling conventions -- passing by 
value vs by reference, handling of arrays, etc.
--le

----- Original Message -----
From: Homme, James<mailto:james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 1:09 PM
Subject: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

Hi,
Am I getting the right impression about this? From what I'm reading, you can 
pick many different languages. They all use the .Net Framework Classes. 
Therefore, it only matters which language you use if you are working in an 
environment where that language is used. For example, if you work somewhere and 
they use C# with .net, then you'd want to learn C#. If you worked or had fun 
somewhere in which they use VB.Net, then you'd want to learn that language. The 
same would apply if you wanted to use Python in the .Net environment. You could 
use Python, but you'd be able to access the classes in the .Net framework, but 
with Python. And the same would go for Cobol, assuming there is some sort of 
Cobol something that uses .Net. Is that anywhere in the ball park?

Thanks.

Jim



Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility 
blog<http://mysites.highmark.com/personal/lidikki/Blog/default.aspx>. Discuss 
accessibility 
here<http://collaborate.highmark.com/COP/technical/accessibility/default.aspx>. 
Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility 
advice<http://collaborate.highmark.com/COP/technical/accessibility/Accessibility%20Wiki/Forms/AllPages.aspx>


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