Re: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

  • From: "qubit" <lauraeaves@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 10:22:21 -0500

isn't there an IDE for vb files in vs express as well as c# and the rest of the 
managed (.NET) languages? That can help you with templates of code for 
implementing various things.
  Anyway, I have never used vb so can't say. But good luck learning the new 
language.
  I heard a funny story about cobol once -- an American programmer was in Japan 
at a business meeting and left his group to tour a building. He discovered he 
was lost, so stepped into a room full of old computer terminals with people 
working on them (this is an old story).  Unfortunately no one in the room knew 
English.  The guy got an idea to communicate using cobol, and since there were 
cobol programmers in the room, they understood him perfectly and took him where 
he needed to go...lol
  Never underestimate the usefulness of a language, even if it is cobol...;)
  --le


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Homme, James 
  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:06 AM
  Subject: RE: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong


  Hi,

  Here's why I'm asking all these questions. And this is in no particular order.

   

  * Since I already know LotusScript, I'm going to learn Visual Basic, which 
looks very, very similar.

   

  * To shortcut some programming Windows forms by hand, I was going to try to 
use Jamal's LBC .Net.

   

  * As far as I know, we don't have Visual Studio as an authorized piece of 
software here, but I looked on my computer and I have folders here with what 
looks like the various command line compilers for .Net stuff. 

   

  * I was able to use EdSharp to write and compile a simple, console, hello 
world program, so I know that the compiler is hooked up.

   

  * LBC has a dll file in the package.

   

  * Since I'm doing everything in EdSharp and nothing in Visual Studio, I'm not 
sure where to put any dll's I might need. And I don't know how to package the 
stuff up if I need to give it to someone else.

   

  * And there is a lot I don't even know what to ask about.

   

  * Almost every book I'm looking at assumes I have Visual Studio, and I don't, 
so I'm pretty frustrated by now.

   

  * And, once again, probably for the billionth time, I'm trying to sneak up on 
learning OO and relational technology. 

   

  * I'm contemplating using SQLite, because that means I don't have to mess 
with SQL Express or whatever it's called.

   

  * I'm pretty sure I can build my program in stages so that I can learn 
concepts as I go. 

   

  I won't include the project here, but if someone wants to give me advice, we 
can take it off list, or keep it on, if it will hwlp others.

   

  Many of you know that I have been trying to do this stuff in fits and starts 
forever, so I won't bore you with the details again, but I'm attempting to 
learn a second language as well as I used to know Cobol. Shudder. 

  * I got a book out on Safari yesterday called something like Visual Basic, 
the Language. It's really good, but now, I probably need a companion set of 
content that explains .Net and how the two work together. 

   

  * I also ran into a book called Core C#, that tells you how to code Windows 
Forms and so on, totally by hand. I'm not sure if I have the ability to 
translate what it says into Visual Basic or not, but the book looks good. 

   

  End of frustrated brain dump for now.

   

  Jim

   

  Jim Homme,

  Usability Services,

  Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme

  Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility here. 
Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice

   

  From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of qubit
  Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:18 AM
  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: Re: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

   

  that's the idea...

  btw: what prompted the question? are you needing to use a c library somewhere?

  --le

   

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Homme, James 

    To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

    Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 5:58 AM

    Subject: RE: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

     

    OK Laura,\

    Let me try to translate. I sit down and write a file in C, for example. I 
compile that file. The C compiler turns it into something that the machine can 
read. In that file is a bunch of functions that I want to just use in other 
programs I write. The next day, I come back and whip out a program in Visual 
Basic. Visual Basic has some way of telling the compiler in my source code that 
I want to use the file I wrote yesterday with my functions in it. I do what I 
want with my C functions in my Visual Basic file. And the computer and I are 
both happy. How's that?

     

    Jim

     

    Jim Homme,

    Usability Services,

    Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme

    Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility 
here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice

     

    From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of qubit
    Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 6:10 AM
    To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: Re: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

     

    hi jim -- no, in one language you declare a function f so you are able to 
call it, but you declare it in language A, although it is defined and 
implemented in another file in language B.

    note the difference between declare and define.  define means you supply 
the body of the function, with executable statements and such.

    This whole explanation presupposes a language like C or those in that 
family of languages that have strongly typed prototypes of functions or methods.

    I'm sorry, the whole idea is that a method or  function is called in 
language A, but defined in language B.

    --le

     

     

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: Jim 

      To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

      Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:56 PM

      Subject: RE: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

       

      Hi Laura,

      So do you have to put the stuff from one language in one source file and 
the stuff from the other language in another one, or can you (I'm not sure why 
you would) put it all in one source file and say some incantation over it?

       

      Jim

       

      Jim Homme

      Skype: jim.homme

      "Every day's a gift."

       

      From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of qubit
      Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 7:16 PM
      To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      Subject: Re: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

       

      It depends on the languages, Jim.

      Of course, in the end they all have to communicate at some level, but in 
the case of java and C, java compiles down to its own little interpreted 
virtual machine, while C compiles down to a .exe that runs on the native 
hardware -- so you have to specify "native" in the declarations in java for the 
functions that are actually implemented in C, and the whole thing somehow 
agrees not to crash your system *smile*

      --le

       

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: Jim 

        To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

        Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:44 PM

        Subject: RE: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

         

        Hi,

        I may not be saying this correctly, but here goes. I was reading a book 
today about this, and it seemed that they were saying that you write in the 
language of your choosing. Then, something takes it and translates it into 
something called a Common Intermediate language, and from there, some of the 
stuff gets put into a common runtime language and that's what makes it work for 
many languages. This is just my attempt to understand how this works. But the 
book I was reading said that most of the time you program in .Net, you're 
really learning how to use the .net framework classes. What little time you 
spend in a given language, you spend hooking things up so that the various .net 
stuff you use works on the data from your program. 

         

        How's that for babble?

         

        Jim

         

         

         

        Jim Homme

        Skype: jim.homme

        "Every day's a gift."

         

        From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace
        Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:50 PM
        To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: Re: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

         

        I have not done that much. Once i had either a couple of files or 
Webpages written in vb and C#. The files just had the .vb and .cs extensions 
and when the project compiled it translated them. Other than that I'm not sure 
how it would work. I work in the Express modules which are for one language. I 
guess Visual Studio would have facillities to handle that since it has multiple 
languages but I'm not sure how you would implement it.

        I know that whichever language you use it is converted into IML which 
is the same for all the .net languages. Likely the compiler reads the file 
extension and converts the source code to IML based on a translator for that 
language and then the IML is merged to create the finished translated code.

        Rick USA

          ----- Original Message ----- 

          From: Jim 

          To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

          Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:35 PM

          Subject: RE: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

           

          Hi,

          I'm one of these people who still thinks computers are part magic. 
How does it work when you have two languages in one program. Do you have two 
files?

           

          Thanks.

           

          Jim

           

          Jim Homme

          Skype: jim.homme

          "Every day's a gift."

           

          From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of qubit
          Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 4:22 PM
          To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
          Subject: Re: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

           

          lol -- imagine COBOL.NET -- sounds like an oxy moron...

          I think you are right, although the languages should be able to 
support OO style in order to integrate .NET.

          and if you have multiple languages in one program, you have to be 
sure you interface correctly to take into account calling conventions -- 
passing by value vs by reference, handling of arrays, etc.

          --le

           

            ----- Original Message ----- 

            From: Homme, James 

            To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

            Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 1:09 PM

            Subject: .Net Impressions, Right Or Wrong

             

            Hi,

            Am I getting the right impression about this? From what I'm 
reading, you can pick many different languages. They all use the .Net Framework 
Classes. Therefore, it only matters which language you use if you are working 
in an environment where that language is used. For example, if you work 
somewhere and they use C# with .net, then you'd want to learn C#. If you worked 
or had fun somewhere in which they use VB.Net, then you'd want to learn that 
language. The same would apply if you wanted to use Python in the .Net 
environment. You could use Python, but you'd be able to access the classes in 
the .Net framework, but with Python. And the same would go for Cobol, assuming 
there is some sort of Cobol something that uses .Net. Is that anywhere in the 
ball park?

             

            Thanks.

             

            Jim

             

             

             

            Jim Homme,

            Usability Services,

            Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme

            Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility blog. Discuss 
accessibility here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice

             

             


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