Re: Low Risk Vinuxx; was Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired Coders?
- From: Alex Midence <alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 12:51:02 -0500
Thanks for some very good suggestions. The big and I do mean ig
problem is, I bout this thing used on craigslist from a guy who built
it from scratch. God only knows what he put on the thing and, while
it was working, I never thought to check. I gave it to my sister as a
gift when I got a newer pc and she must have downloaded something on
it that jacked up the bios. Now, this is pure speculation. I
unfortunately don't have access to a trained pair of eyes to have a
squint at it. My wife is perfectly sighted but trying to jcolaborate
with her on a pc-related issue is an exercise in frustration since she
has a hard time verbalizing what she sees. I know, I know, she
married a blind guy but .. It's how things are.
Alex M
On 10/16/10, Jackie McBride <abletec@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Most mobo's have a jumper sequence which can clear bios passwords. The trick
> is:
> a) To have the correct manual in order to locate how that's done;
> b) to have a trained pair of eyes (& I do mean trained) to interpret
> the diagram, because that's how the material is normally presented; &
> c) To then be able to locate the appropriate jumpers on the motherboard.
>
> But, here's 1 thing--if u can flash the bios from a floppy & find the
> proper bios for the board, u may be able to do it that way.
>
> On 10/16/10, Don Marang <donald.marang@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Most computers have a key to hold down while starting up that provides a
>> list of devices to boot from. On my Dell computers, this is the F12 key.
>> This will override the BIOS boot up sequence for that session. The top
>> item, "Boot from HD" is selected. Pressing the Down Arrow once will
>> select
>> "Boot from CD/DVD". If a USB device is detected, it will be placed
>> between
>> the HD and CD options. So normally, holding down the F12 key for about 5
>> seconds after turning on the computer, then pressing the Down Arrow key
>> once, and pressing Enter will boot from the CD/DVD.
>>
>> If your BIOS has a password set, I would doubt if it would let you boot
>> from
>> CD and reformat the hard disk. I know there are Ubuntu tools to break
>> unknown Windows passwords. I have them installed on my USB Rescue Flash
>> drive. I do not think it handles BIOS passwords. I would do a Google
>> search. I would not be surprised that there is a Ubuntu package out there
>> to break BIOS passwords.
>>
>> Creating a USB Rescue Flash drive is easy. Download the Vinux 3.0 USB
>> tool
>> below and install the desired rescue packages. The third link, step 24,
>> is
>> an example of installing the common rescue packages. The 'chntpw' package
>> is the Windows password tool. You can install other Ubuntu packages in
>> the
>> same manner.
>>
>> Vinux Virtual World download page:
>> http://vinuxvirtual.org.uk/downloads
>>
>> USB creation tool direct link: (works from Windows)
>> http://vinuxvirtual.org.uk/lucid/Vinux-3.0-USB-Win.zip
>>
>> Create Vinux Rescue DVD including Image for Linux:
>> http://wiki.vinuxvirtual.org.uk/index.php?title=Vinux_How-To_Page#Create_a_Vinux_Rescue_DVD_Which_Includes_Image_for_Linux
>>
>> Don Marang
>>
>> There is just so much stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of any
>> real
>> substance, value, and content that I just try to make sure that I am
>> working
>> on things that matter.
>> Dean Kamen
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Alex Midence" <alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 12:12 AM
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: Re: Low Risk Vinuxx; was Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for
>> Visually Impaired Coders?
>>
>>> I have been tinkering with it using a live cd and I'm finding it quite
>>> addictive. Wish someone would put together a live cd download of
>>> vinux with emacs speak with Espeak as the desktop that comes up
>>> instead of gnome. Be neat to try it out.
>>>
>>> While I'm wishing, I wish I could get this old pc I've got lying
>>> around to boot up with it. My wife isn't very computer literate and I
>>> can't get her to describe the bios methods for me that would let me
>>> configure the thing to boot from cd. The PC has windows 98 on it and
>>> died the death some years ago when it choked on a bios virus that did
>>> nasty mean things to it. Now, it won't come up even with windows if
>>> you don't put in a password at the bios prompt. Before the OS is even
>>> launched. I don't know the password. There probably really isn't
>>> one. Pity because it used to work great. It's got a 40 gig hard
>>> drive and about 512 megs of ram. Vinux would run just fine on it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alex M
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/14/10, Don Marang <donald.marang@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> Vinux has several low risk methods, besides using a live CD or DVD.
>>>> From
>>>> your favorite version of Windows, you can run Vinux in a VMware Player
>>>> Virtual Machine (VM). You can download a preconfigured VM at:
>>>> Vinux Virtual Edition -
>>>> http://vinuxvirtual.org.uk
>>>>
>>>> For better performance, and as a great Rescue Device, I recommend
>>>> checking
>>>> out creating an USB Flash drive with persistance. The above site also
>>>> has a
>>>> Windows tool to create such a device.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don Marang
>>>>
>>>> There is just so much stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of any
>>>> real
>>>> substance, value, and content that I just try to make sure that I am
>>>> working
>>>> on things that matter.
>>>> Dean Kamen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Homme, James" <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:33 PM
>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Subject: RE: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired
>>>> Coders?
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> If I would get an external hard drive, would that work, and is someone
>>>>> willing to lose their hair in the act of trying to help me do this?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim Homme,
>>>>> Usability Services,
>>>>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
>>>>> Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility
>>>>> here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris
>>>>> Hofstader
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:02 PM
>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired
>>>>> Coders?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jim,
>>>>>
>>>>> Item 1: A few people on this list could help you install the VM based
>>>>> Vinux on a Windows computer running VMWare Player. I'm probably not the
>>>>> best source for this help (Sina knows it much better than I do) but we
>>>>> could spend some time writing up the things you need to download to get
>>>>> started and then maybe talking to you on the phone through the
>>>>> installation process. A spare hard disk to house your virtual machines
>>>>> might give you greater peace of mind knowing that your Vinux distro
>>>>> won't
>>>>> even know about your main hard drive and, therefore, cannot destroy
>>>>> your
>>>>> valuable data.
>>>>>
>>>>> Item 2: I'm told that their is emacspeak for Windows but, right now, I
>>>>> don't have Windows running on anything in my Cambridge home so I can't
>>>>> find the download and try the installation to give you any useful help
>>>>> on
>>>>> getting emacspeak running on Windows.
>>>>>
>>>>> cdh
>>>>> On Oct 14, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Homme, James wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Chris,
>>>>>> I truly wish I were brave enough to install Vinux. Someday I'll grab a
>>>>>> spare machine and give it a try. Does Emacs Speak happen to work on
>>>>>> Windows?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim Homme,
>>>>>> Usability Services,
>>>>>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
>>>>>> Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog. Discuss
>>>>>> accessibility
>>>>>> here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris
>>>>>> Hofstader
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 8:27 AM
>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired
>>>>>> Coders?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using emacspeak is sort of like having a fully accessible OS but in a
>>>>>> semi self voicing, semi screen reader environment. I like to use it
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> programming but it is the ultimate talking multi-tool.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cdh
>>>>>> On Oct 14, 2010, at 4:19 AM, <Nick.Adamson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In answer to the subject field my answer is yes.
>>>>>>> Just a couple of thoughts.
>>>>>>> We have got to be careful about limiting our selves.
>>>>>>> I'm in general agreement with what's been said however we have to
>>>>>>> face
>>>>>>> facts. We live in a visual world. When I tell people I'm a computer
>>>>>>> programmer almost the first question I get asked is how can you see
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> screen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also think the idea of an OS which doesn't have a GUI which would
>>>>>>> avoid having to have a complex expensive screen reader on is a nice
>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>> in theory but there are a couple of points which would make it in
>>>>>>> practical. This OS would typically be for the VI market, which means
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> would be a specialist development. This means it would need to be
>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>> source or proprietary for an access tech company. If you think screen
>>>>>>> readers are complex they are nothing to a full operating system. This
>>>>>>> would indicate that the price would be hefty Or not commercially
>>>>>>> supported in the instance of an Open source OS.
>>>>>>> The other major limitation on a new OS would be support in an
>>>>>>> industrial
>>>>>>> environment. For example the company I work for has a specific build
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> windows XP aloud on the network, it won't let you have other builds
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> XP connected unless otherwise approved and just forget about non
>>>>>>> windows
>>>>>>> based OS, not a chance, this is not that unusual in a work
>>>>>>> environment.
>>>>>>> Also I would be afraid that it would button hole us and make it
>>>>>>> harder
>>>>>>> for one of us to get a job as a software engineer. If you tern up for
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> job interview and you don't have any experience developing for the
>>>>>>> platform your potential employer targets its another thing that marks
>>>>>>> you down in comparison to anyone else going for the job.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The other worry is if a blind developer had no GUI development skills
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> all. As has been said on this thread for a sighted person to put
>>>>>>> together a gui its pretty quick so its a normal thing a sighted
>>>>>>> developer can do.
>>>>>>> I'd like to think that I'm someone who will give almost anything ago
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> try not to let the fact I can't see a screen make a difference to the
>>>>>>> work I do.
>>>>>>> With this philosophy in mind there are 2 questions I was asked that a
>>>>>>> normal developer wouldn't have been in the job interview which
>>>>>>> resulted
>>>>>>> in me getting the job I've been doing for the last 5 and a half
>>>>>>> years.
>>>>>>> 1. How would you be able to use the graphical UML design tools and
>>>>>>> show
>>>>>>> software design in a similar way to other developers?
>>>>>>> 2. Can and how do you develop GUI's.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Write away there you can see the interviewer seeing problems that
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> to be answered to find out if I can do the job. I know some people
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> would have thought it improper to ask these questions but in my mind
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> they hadn't been asked there would have still been a question mark
>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>> to me when it came down to selecting the successful candidate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been told since that it was the "I may not do it in the normal
>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>> but it will get done" attitude of the answers that I gave which
>>>>>>> swayed
>>>>>>> the panel in my way as it showed my attitude to everything, not just
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> blindness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If my answers would have been
>>>>>>> 1. I don't do graphical design. Its pointless, I do everything in a
>>>>>>> text
>>>>>>> file.
>>>>>>> 2. I don't do GUI's, other people are better at it than I am.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It shows a defeatist attitude, not something most employers are
>>>>>>> looking
>>>>>>> for.
>>>>>>> Yes, sighted people can be quicker at both these particular software
>>>>>>> skills but other things I bring to the table I could be better at
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> others in the team, not because I'm blind but because I just am. A
>>>>>>> team
>>>>>>> is made up of individuals with varying skills.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lets not get away from the fact that the negative answers above do
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> an element of truth. If I had my way my design wouldn't be done in
>>>>>>> UML
>>>>>>> and I wouldn't do GUI development but I don't work in a bubble.
>>>>>>> Sighted
>>>>>>> people review, approve and use software and designs that I've
>>>>>>> generated
>>>>>>> and as I said we live in a visual world.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, enough rambling from me.
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> Nick.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kerneels
>>>>>>> Roos
>>>>>>> Sent: 13 October 2010 16:08
>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Subject: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired Coders?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This message was posted to a reply on the long thread about Oracle
>>>>>>> accessibility concerns involving Java. I thought I'd post it again
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> a new subject, since it deviates from the original topic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can't agree more your this statement Jay. As much as all of us want
>>>>>>> to create nice GUIs, it is really such such a battel for someone that
>>>>>>> can't see properly, if you are honest with yourself. I would say that
>>>>>>> the FB examples are indicative of this, since the FB concept is very
>>>>>>> simple yet for a visually impaired person to build a GUI is a
>>>>>>> massive
>>>>>>> task in all fairness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I didn't catch the whole story with the recent critisism of the FB
>>>>>>> examples, but I can understand why a professor for example would
>>>>>>> ridicule having the logic and presentation code (GUI code) all in one
>>>>>>> file. (or any other aspect of the FB stuff that servce the purpose of
>>>>>>> aiding blind people) It's a poor design choice for anything but an
>>>>>>> example, but then, that's exactly what the FB examples are -- tools
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> show you simple GUI creation in various programming languages.
>>>>>>> Personally I think it's great and I commend all the contributors.
>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> service to the community, but sighted people will struggle to see
>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>> worth.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We must understand, for a fully sighted person, building GUIs is
>>>>>>> rediculously easy and straight forward. No matter what kind of
>>>>>>> accessible GUI designer tools there might be in future, the playing
>>>>>>> field will never be level when it comes to anything graphic. Yet
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> is no reason for despair, since there are numerous other areas in
>>>>>>> computer sciense and programming in particular where a blind person
>>>>>>> could compete well and I'm speculating that there might even be areas
>>>>>>> where having no or little sight might aid you!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One particular small project I worked on while studying at university
>>>>>>> springs to mind. It was a little applet developed with AWT or Swing
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> saved your bookmarks in a tree structure. The professor was a
>>>>>>> gracious
>>>>>>> man, and he gave us a nice score for the project, but he stepped in
>>>>>>> after we did our presentation and basically told the class that we
>>>>>>> really did spend much time on this and that we didn't just download
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> from the net or something... He did this, I think, because our
>>>>>>> project
>>>>>>> was fairly inferiour graphic wise compaired to the elaborate graphics
>>>>>>> the other student's projects sported even though I spent hours and
>>>>>>> hours
>>>>>>> on the little GUI side of the software.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's heart breaking for me when I read how hard blind folks try and
>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>> appealing graphical interfaces, or when I read about the struggles
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> software causes blind guys. It's commendable to see how people cope
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> the worst of situations, but there are also better areas to focus
>>>>>>> on,,
>>>>>>> areas where you'll be far more productive and make a better impact .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a complex topic for me and there are much to say about it. What
>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>> wondering is if it is not a good time to review the way disabled
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> are trained up to believe that interaction with computers should
>>>>>>> commence in the generally accepted form of having a "normal" or
>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>> OS with all highly graphical applications with a rediculously
>>>>>>> advanced
>>>>>>> and complex and expensive screen reader stuck on top of it all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And then, on the other hand, how we can identify better software
>>>>>>> development areas to focus on where blindness poses less of an
>>>>>>> obsticle.
>>>>>>> Also, how we can advance in those areas and properly promote
>>>>>>> ourselves
>>>>>>> and our value to a software development shop developing for the
>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>> public or business where accessibility is of little concern. Myself
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> one have a little bit of a complex when think of all my years
>>>>>>> experience
>>>>>>> as a software developer and yet the difficulty with which I'm faced
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> when having to develop a GUI, and how someone with far less
>>>>>>> experience
>>>>>>> than myself could code a GUI so much faster and better looking in
>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>> time and with less effort.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My challenge to the list; let's draw up a specification of areas in
>>>>>>> programming and computer science where visually impaired people can
>>>>>>> excell at in the modern age where graphics does play such a ever
>>>>>>> increasingly important part.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Armed with such a specification we'll be in the right position to
>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>> and focus efforts on training ourselves up in those areas and then
>>>>>>> sharing knowledge and awareness so that a wel trained blind
>>>>>>> programmer
>>>>>>> (in the identified fields) could approach any development house with
>>>>>>> confidence of his / her abilities and value she / he will add to a
>>>>>>> company.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kerneels
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/13/2010 12:31 AM, Jay Macarty wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would advise spending time on web development with java on the
>>>>>>> server side. Either that or headless java development such as web
>>>>>>> services. Both directions can allow a person to grow into a very
>>>>>>> strong
>>>>>>> java developer with very marketable skill sets without fighting the
>>>>>>> constant battle of either swing accessibility or trying to gain
>>>>>>> skills
>>>>>>> in an API, swt, which may have somewhat limited acceptence in a large
>>>>>>> traditional java shop. Personally, I love swt; however, as a tech
>>>>>>> lead,
>>>>>>> I can't push it into a project here because it is not an accepted
>>>>>>> technology by our enterprise architects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Homme, James"
>>>>>>> <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 7:02 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration,
>>>>>>> IMHO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Jay,
>>>>>>> Would you advise someone new to Java to spend more time on
>>>>>>> Swing, SWT, or web?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jim Homme,
>>>>>>> Usability Services,
>>>>>>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
>>>>>>> Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog. Discuss
>>>>>>> accessibility here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and
>>>>>>> accessibility
>>>>>>> advice
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jay
>>>>>>> Macarty
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 3:31 PM
>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration,
>>>>>>> IMHO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Over the past couple of years, I have been involved in hiring
>>>>>>> java
>>>>>>> developers several times. One of the things we have had trouble
>>>>>>> with is
>>>>>>> finding people with swing experience. It seems that, while there
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> certainly a number of applications still using swing heavily, a
>>>>>>> lot of java
>>>>>>> development is moving away from swing based GUI interfaces to
>>>>>>> using web
>>>>>>> based front-ends. Perhaps, Oracle thinks that a declining
>>>>>>> interest in using
>>>>>>> swing as a UI means they don't need to spend as much effort on
>>>>>>> swing
>>>>>>> accessibility but that thought path can certainly leave those of
>>>>>>> us who
>>>>>>> still need access to heavily swing based apps in a spot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Stanzel, Susan - Kansas City, MO"
>>>>>>> <susan.stanzel@xxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:susan.stanzel@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 8:11 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration,
>>>>>>> IMHO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Listers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have not stepped into this until now. I would hope that
>>>>>>> needing government
>>>>>>> contracts in the United States would have some affect on all
>>>>>>> this. I have
>>>>>>> asked people about swing and I am told it isn't used very much
>>>>>>> because there
>>>>>>> is newer technology out there. I am not an experienced Java
>>>>>>> programmer so
>>>>>>> maybe the rest of you will know more than I do. I know we use
>>>>>>> Struts at my
>>>>>>> building for creation of web projects. If I have just made a
>>>>>>> fool of myself,
>>>>>>> it's not the first time and won't be the last. (grin).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Susie Stanzel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of The
>>>>>>> Elf
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 7:08 PM
>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration,
>>>>>>> IMHO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hey, this is my usual line, "beat them into submission" lol
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or hound,or pummel, or...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> elf
>>>>>>> Moderator, Blind Access Help
>>>>>>> Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
>>>>>>> Specialists in customized computers and peripherals
>>>>>>> - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!
>>>>>>> www.alacorncomputer.com
>>>>>>> proprietor, The Grab Bag,
>>>>>>> for blind computer users and programmers
>>>>>>> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> <mailto:sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 10:14 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration,
>>>>>>> IMHO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wow, it only took like 15 emails on the subject, but
>>>>>>> finally the voice of
>>>>>>> reason has made itself known.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken, I completely agree. Now is the time to pressure
>>>>>>> them into actually
>>>>>>> not abandoning it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>> Sina
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Ken Perry
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 1:10 AM
>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious
>>>>>>> consideration, IMHO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If this is true then it's not time to tell people to
>>>>>>> stay away. It's time
>>>>>>> to get people to get active and start emailing and
>>>>>>> calling them till they do support it. If we stay away
>>>>>>> we lose what
>>>>>>> accessibility was there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Storm Dragon
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 11:09 PM
>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious
>>>>>>> consideration, IMHO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> I would not doubt it for one second. They dropped the
>>>>>>> ball on Linux
>>>>>>> accessibility pretty much first thing when they took
>>>>>>> over Sun.
>>>>>>> It's probably a good idea, if you have influence over
>>>>>>> software decisions,
>>>>>>> to encourage companies, clients, and friends to stay far
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> far away from Oracle and their software. I was even
>>>>>>> going to get rid of
>>>>>>> Open Office but fortunately the version used in Ubuntu
>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>> fork so not subject to them. unless, that is, they
>>>>>>> somehow manage to win
>>>>>>> their evil attack on Google. If that happens, who knows
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> they will attack next. Keep your fingers crossed, and
>>>>>>> maybe the open
>>>>>>> source community will keep the Bridge going, Orca is
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> alive and well after all.
>>>>>>> Storm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux user number 508465:
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> My blog, Thoughts of a Dragon:
>>>>>>> http://www.stormdragon.us/
>>>>>>> Get yourself a Frostbox:
>>>>>>> http://www.frostbitesystems.com/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 2010-10-09 at 08:15 +0530, prateek aggarwal
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> oh know,
>>>>>>> i wish its just a rumor.
>>>>>>> if its ever going to be true, i'll be so said.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>> prateek agarwal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/9/10, Jamal Mazrui <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> <mailto:empower@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I heard from a good source today that Oracle has
>>>>>>> decided to discontinue
>>>>>>> support for the Java Access Bridge (and no
>>>>>>> alternative is planned). I
>>>>>>> would be glad to be convinced otherwise. If
>>>>>>> anyone has information
>>>>>>> regarding this topic, please share.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jamal
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your
>>>>>>> settings at
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and are
>>>>>>> intended solely for use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>>>>>>> addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> sender immediately and then delete it. If you are not the intended
>>>>>>> recipient, you must not keep, use, disclose, copy or distribute this
>>>>>>> e-mail without the author's prior permission. The views expressed in
>>>>>>> this e-mail message do not necessarily represent the views of
>>>>>>> Highmark
>>>>>>> Inc., its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Kerneels Roos
>>>>>>> Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998
>>>>>>> Skype: cornelis.roos
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Common Sense" is not "Common Practice" .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "The Strawberry Jam Law:
>>>>>>> The wider you spread it, the thinner it gets..."
>>>>>>> -- from the Java Specialist Newsletter, from a book on consulting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> __________
>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>
>>>>> __________
>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> __________
>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
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>>>>
>>> __________
>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>
>>>
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Change the world--1 deed at a time
> Jackie McBride
> Scripting Classes: http://jawsscripting.lonsdalemedia.org
> homePage: www.abletec.serverheaven.net
> For technophobes: www.technophoeb.com
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
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>
>
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