Re: Low Risk Vinuxx; was Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired Coders?

  • From: "Don Marang" <donald.marang@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:24:16 -0400

Most computers have a key to hold down while starting up that provides a list of devices to boot from. On my Dell computers, this is the F12 key. This will override the BIOS boot up sequence for that session. The top item, "Boot from HD" is selected. Pressing the Down Arrow once will select "Boot from CD/DVD". If a USB device is detected, it will be placed between the HD and CD options. So normally, holding down the F12 key for about 5 seconds after turning on the computer, then pressing the Down Arrow key once, and pressing Enter will boot from the CD/DVD.
If your BIOS has a password set, I would doubt if it would let you boot from CD and reformat the hard disk. I know there are Ubuntu tools to break unknown Windows passwords. I have them installed on my USB Rescue Flash drive. I do not think it handles BIOS passwords. I would do a Google search. I would not be surprised that there is a Ubuntu package out there to break BIOS passwords.
Creating a USB Rescue Flash drive is easy. Download the Vinux 3.0 USB tool below and install the desired rescue packages. The third link, step 24, is an example of installing the common rescue packages. The 'chntpw' package is the Windows password tool. You can install other Ubuntu packages in the same manner. 

Vinux Virtual World download page:
http://vinuxvirtual.org.uk/downloads

USB creation tool direct link:  (works from Windows)
http://vinuxvirtual.org.uk/lucid/Vinux-3.0-USB-Win.zip

Create Vinux Rescue DVD including Image for Linux:
http://wiki.vinuxvirtual.org.uk/index.php?title=Vinux_How-To_Page#Create_a_Vinux_Rescue_DVD_Which_Includes_Image_for_Linux

Don Marang
There is just so much stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of any real substance, value, and content that I just try to make sure that I am working on things that matter. 
Dean Kamen


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Alex Midence" <alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 12:12 AM
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Low Risk Vinuxx; was Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired Coders? 


I have been tinkering with it using a live cd and I'm finding it quite
addictive.  Wish someone would put together a live cd download of
vinux with emacs speak with Espeak as the desktop that comes up
instead of gnome.  Be neat to try it out.

While I'm wishing, I wish I could get this old pc I've got lying
around to boot up with it.  My wife isn't very computer literate and I
can't get her to describe the bios methods for me that would let me
configure the thing to boot from cd.  The PC has windows 98 on it and
died the death some years ago when it choked on a bios virus that did
nasty mean things to it.  Now, it won't come up even with windows if
you don't put in a password at the bios prompt.  Before the OS is even
launched.  I don't know the password.  There probably really isn't
one.  Pity because it used to work great.  It's got a 40 gig hard
drive and about 512 megs of ram.  Vinux would run just fine on it.



Alex M


On 10/14/10, Don Marang <donald.marang@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Vinux has several low risk methods, besides using a live CD or DVD.  From
your favorite version of Windows, you can run Vinux in a VMware Player
Virtual Machine (VM).  You can download a preconfigured VM at:
Vinux Virtual Edition -
http://vinuxvirtual.org.uk
For better performance, and as a great Rescue Device, I recommend checking out creating an USB Flash drive with persistance. The above site also has a 
Windows tool to create such a device.


Don Marang
There is just so much stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of any real substance, value, and content that I just try to make sure that I am working 
on things that matter.
Dean Kamen


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Homme, James" <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:33 PM
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired Coders?


Hi,
If I would get an external hard drive, would that work, and is someone
willing to lose their hair in the act of trying to help me do this?

Thanks.

Jim

Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility
here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice


-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris
Hofstader
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:02 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired Coders? 

Hi Jim,

Item 1: A few people on this list could help you install the VM based
Vinux on a Windows computer running VMWare Player. I'm probably not the
best source for this help (Sina knows it much better than I do) but we
could spend some time writing up the things you need to download to get
started and then maybe talking to you on the phone through the
installation process. A spare hard disk to house your virtual machines
might give you greater peace of mind knowing that your Vinux distro won't 
even know about your main hard drive and, therefore, cannot destroy your
valuable data.

Item 2: I'm told that their is emacspeak for Windows but, right now, I
don't have Windows running on anything in my Cambridge home so I can't
find the download and try the installation to give you any useful help on 
getting emacspeak running on Windows.

cdh
On Oct 14, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Homme, James wrote:


Hi Chris,
I truly wish I were brave enough to install Vinux. Someday I'll grab a
spare machine and give it a try. Does Emacs Speak happen to work on
Windows?

Jim

Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility
here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice


-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris
Hofstader
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 8:27 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired Coders? 

Using emacspeak is sort of like having a fully accessible OS but in a
semi self voicing, semi screen reader environment. I like to use it for
programming but it is the ultimate talking multi-tool.

cdh
On Oct 14, 2010, at 4:19 AM, <Nick.Adamson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: 


Hi.

In answer to the subject field my answer is yes.
Just a couple of thoughts.
We have got to be careful about limiting our selves.
I'm in general agreement with what's been said however we have to face
facts. We live in a visual world. When I tell people I'm a computer
programmer almost the first question I get asked is how can you see the 
screen.

I also think the idea of an OS which doesn't have a GUI which would
avoid having to have a complex expensive screen reader on is a nice idea 
in theory but there are a couple of points which would make it in
practical. This OS would typically be for the VI market, which means it 
would be a specialist development. This means it would need to be open
source or proprietary for an access tech company. If you think screen
readers are complex they are nothing to a full operating system. This
would indicate that the price would be hefty Or not commercially
supported in the instance of an Open source OS.
The other major limitation on a new OS would be support in an industrial environment. For example the company I work for has a specific build of 
windows XP aloud on the network, it won't let you have other builds of
XP connected unless otherwise approved and just forget about non windows based OS, not a chance, this is not that unusual in a work environment. 
Also I would be afraid that it would button hole us and make it harder
for one of us to get a job as a software engineer. If you tern up for a 
job interview and you don't have any experience developing for the
platform your potential employer targets its another thing that marks
you down in comparison to anyone else going for the job.
The other worry is if a blind developer had no GUI development skills at 
all. As has been said on this thread for a sighted person to put
together a gui its pretty quick so its a normal thing a sighted
developer can do.
I'd like to think that I'm someone who will give almost anything ago and 
try not to let the fact I can't see a screen make a difference to the
work I do.
With this philosophy in mind there are 2 questions I was asked that a
normal developer wouldn't have been in the job interview which resulted 
in me getting the job I've been doing for the last 5 and a half years.
1. How would you be able to use the graphical UML design tools and show 
software design in a similar way to other developers?
2. Can and how do you develop GUI's.

Write away there you can see the interviewer seeing problems that need
to be answered to find out if I can do the job. I know some people who
would have thought it improper to ask these questions but in my mind if they hadn't been asked there would have still been a question mark next 
to me when it came down to selecting the successful candidate.
I've been told since that it was the "I may not do it in the normal way 
but it will get done" attitude of the answers that I gave which swayed
the panel in my way as it showed my attitude to everything, not just my 
blindness.

If my answers would have been
1. I don't do graphical design. Its pointless, I do everything in a text 
file.
2. I don't do GUI's, other people are better at it than I am.
It shows a defeatist attitude, not something most employers are looking 
for.
Yes, sighted people can be quicker at both these particular software
skills but other things I bring to the table I could be better at than
others in the team, not because I'm blind but because I just am. A team 
is made up of individuals with varying skills.
Lets not get away from the fact that the negative answers above do have 
an element of truth. If I had my way my design wouldn't be done in UML
and I wouldn't do GUI development but I don't work in a bubble. Sighted people review, approve and use software and designs that I've generated 
and as I said we live in a visual world.

Anyway, enough rambling from me.
Thanks
Nick.

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kerneels
Roos
Sent: 13 October 2010 16:08
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired Coders?

This message was posted to a reply on the long thread about Oracle
accessibility concerns involving Java. I thought I'd post it again with 
a new subject, since it deviates from the original topic.


I can't agree more your this statement Jay. As much as all of us want
to create nice GUIs, it is really such such a battel for someone that
can't see properly, if you are honest with yourself. I would say that
the FB examples are indicative of this, since the FB concept is very
simple yet for a visually impaired person to build a GUI  is a massive
task in all fairness.

I didn't  catch the whole story with the recent critisism of the FB
examples, but I can understand why a professor for example would
ridicule having the logic and presentation code (GUI code) all in one
file. (or any other aspect of the FB stuff that servce the purpose of
aiding blind people) It's a poor design choice for anything but an
example, but then, that's exactly what the FB examples are -- tools to
show you simple GUI creation in various programming languages.
Personally I think it's great and I commend all the contributors. It's a 
service to the community, but sighted people will struggle to see it's
worth.

We must understand, for a fully sighted person, building GUIs is
rediculously easy and straight forward. No matter what kind of
accessible GUI designer tools there might be in future, the playing
field will never be level when it comes to anything graphic. Yet there
is no reason for despair, since there are numerous other areas in
computer sciense and programming in particular where a blind person
could compete well and I'm speculating that there might even be areas
where having no or little sight might aid you!

One particular small project I worked on while studying at university
springs to mind. It was a little applet developed with AWT or Swing that 
saved your bookmarks in a tree structure. The professor was a gracious
man, and he gave us a nice score for the project, but he stepped in
after we did our presentation and basically told the  class that we
really did spend much time on this and that we didn't just download it
from the net or something... He did this, I think, because our project
was fairly inferiour graphic wise compaired to the elaborate graphics
the other student's projects sported even though I spent hours and hours 
on the little GUI side of the software.
It's heart breaking for me when I read how hard blind folks try and make appealing graphical interfaces, or when I read about the struggles some software causes blind guys. It's commendable to see how people cope with 
the worst of situations, but there are also better areas to focus on,,
areas where you'll be far more productive and make a better impact .
It's a complex topic for me and there are much to say about it. What I'm wondering is if it is not a good time to review the way disabled people 
are trained up to believe that interaction with computers should
commence in the generally accepted form of having a "normal" or sighted 
OS with all highly graphical applications with a rediculously advanced
and complex and expensive screen reader stuck on top of it all.

And then, on the other hand, how we can identify better software
development areas to focus on where blindness poses less of an obsticle. 
Also, how we can advance in those areas and properly promote ourselves
and our value to a software development shop developing for the general public or business where accessibility is of little concern. Myself for one have a little bit of a complex when think of all my years experience as a software developer and yet the difficulty with which I'm faced with 
when having to develop a GUI, and how someone with far less experience
than myself could code a GUI so much faster and better looking in less
time and with less effort.

My challenge to the list; let's draw up a specification of areas in
programming and computer science where visually impaired people can
excell at in the modern age where graphics does play such a ever
increasingly important part.
Armed with such a specification we'll be in the right position to start 
and focus efforts on training ourselves up in those areas and then
sharing knowledge and awareness so that a wel trained blind programmer
(in the identified fields) could approach any development house with
confidence of his / her abilities and value she / he will add to a
company.

Kerneels

On 10/13/2010 12:31 AM, Jay Macarty wrote:


     I would advise spending time on web development with java on the
server side. Either that or headless java development such as web
services. Both directions can allow a person to grow into a very strong 
java developer with very marketable skill sets without fighting the
constant battle of either swing accessibility or trying to gain skills
in an API, swt, which may have somewhat limited acceptence in a large
traditional java shop. Personally, I love swt; however, as a tech lead, 
I can't push it into a project here because it is not an accepted
technology by our enterprise architects.

     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Homme, James"
<james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
     To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 7:02 AM
     Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration,
IMHO


     Hi Jay,
     Would you advise someone new to Java to spend more time on
Swing, SWT, or web?

     Thanks.

     Jim

     Jim Homme,
     Usability Services,
     Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
     Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility blog. Discuss
accessibility here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility 
advice


     -----Original Message-----
     From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jay Macarty 
     Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 3:31 PM
     To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
     Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration,
IMHO

     Over the past couple of years, I have been involved in hiring
java
     developers several times. One of the things we have had trouble
with is
     finding people with swing experience. It seems that, while there
are
     certainly a number of applications still using swing heavily, a
lot of java
     development is moving away from swing based GUI interfaces to
using web
     based front-ends. Perhaps, Oracle thinks that a declining
interest in using
     swing as a UI means they don't need to spend as much effort on
swing
     accessibility but that thought path can certainly leave those of
us who
     still need access to heavily swing based apps in a spot.


     ----- Original Message -----
     From: "Stanzel, Susan - Kansas City, MO"
<susan.stanzel@xxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:susan.stanzel@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
     To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 8:11 PM
     Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration,
IMHO


     Hi Listers,

     I have not stepped into this until now. I would hope that
needing government
     contracts in the United States would have some affect on all
this. I have
     asked people about swing and I am told it isn't used very much
because there
     is newer technology out there. I am not an experienced Java
programmer so
     maybe the rest of you will know more than I do. I know we use
Struts at my
     building for creation of web projects. If I have just made a
fool of myself,
     it's not the first time and won't be the last. (grin).

     Susie Stanzel

     -----Original Message-----
     From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
     [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of The
Elf
     Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 7:08 PM
     To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
     Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration,
IMHO

     hey, this is my usual line, "beat them into submission" lol

     or hound,or pummel,  or...

     elf
     Moderator, Blind Access Help
     Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
     Specialists in customized computers and peripherals
     - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!
     www.alacorncomputer.com
     proprietor, The Grab Bag,
     for blind computer users and programmers
     http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com

     ----- Original Message -----
     From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
     To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 10:14 AM
     Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration,
IMHO




             Wow, it only took like 15 emails on the subject, but
finally the voice of
             reason has made itself known.

             Ken, I completely agree. Now is the time to pressure
them into actually
             not abandoning it.

             Take care,
             Sina

             ________________________________

             From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
             [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Ken Perry
             Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 1:10 AM
             To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
             Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious
consideration, IMHO



             If this is true then it's not time to tell people to
stay away.  It's time
             to get people to get active and start emailing and
             calling them till they do support it.  If we stay away
we lose what
             accessibility was there.



             Ken





             From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
             [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Storm Dragon
             Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 11:09 PM
             To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
             Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious
consideration, IMHO



             Hi,
             I would not doubt it for one second. They dropped the
ball on Linux
             accessibility pretty much first thing when they took
over Sun.
             It's probably a good idea, if you have influence over
software decisions,
             to encourage companies, clients, and friends to stay far

             far away from Oracle and their software. I was even
going to get rid of
             Open Office but fortunately the version used in Ubuntu
is a
             fork so not subject to them. unless, that is, they
somehow manage to win
             their evil attack on Google. If that happens, who knows
who
             they will attack next. Keep your fingers crossed, and
maybe the open
             source community will keep the Bridge going, Orca is
still
             alive and well after all.
             Storm

             --


             Registered Linux user number 508465:
             http://counter.li.org/
             My blog, Thoughts of a Dragon:
             http://www.stormdragon.us/
             Get yourself a Frostbox:
             http://www.frostbitesystems.com/


             On Sat, 2010-10-09 at 08:15 +0530, prateek aggarwal
wrote:


             oh know,
             i wish its just a rumor.
             if its ever going to be true, i'll be so said.

             regards,
             prateek agarwal.



             On 10/9/10, Jamal Mazrui <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:empower@xxxxxxxxx>  wrote:


                     I heard from a good source today that Oracle has
decided to discontinue
                     support for the Java Access Bridge (and no
alternative is planned).  I
                     would be glad to be convinced otherwise.  If
anyone has information
                     regarding this topic, please share.

                     Jamal

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--
Kerneels Roos
Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998
Skype: cornelis.roos

"Common Sense" is not "Common Practice" .

"The Strawberry Jam Law:
The wider you spread it, the thinner it gets..."
 -- from the Java Specialist Newsletter, from a book on consulting.


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