Re: Low Risk Vinuxx; was Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired Coders?
- From: Chris Hofstader <cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 09:28:18 -0400
Orca is indeed written in python and it uses python as its scripting language
as well.
On Oct 18, 2010, at 12:30 PM, Homme, James wrote:
> Hi Sina,
> But presumably, if I keep going in my Python learning, I might be able to do
> something such as contribute to Orca, which would help, or is that program
> written in something else?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Homme,
> Usability Services,
> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
> Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility here.
> Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 11:12 AM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Low Risk Vinuxx; was Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for
> Visually Impaired Coders?
>
> You said religious views aside, which implies that you don't want to know
> about free software versus proprietary software.
>
> To that end, I will give you a purely functional answer free of philosophy.
>
> The practical answer is that your user experience as a blind user doing the
> things you described will be noticeably worse and more
> frustrating on Vinux.
>
> Everyday, this answer becomes less and less true, but honesty is the best
> policy, and for right now, Vinux would not be what I'd
> recommend for the operations you just described.
>
> Now, of course there are benefits that come along with the disadvantages;
> such as, some improved defenses against most threats out
> there, simply because folks target windows more than Linux, not because Linux
> is somehow more secure, which it isn't. you have more
> control over your system in terms of tweaks you can make to it, both
> graphical and commandline. And, I'd say that you have the
> obvious financial benefit of it being free.
>
> Take care,
> Sina
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James
> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 7:57 AM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Low Risk Vinuxx; was Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for
> Visually Impaired Coders?
>
> Hi,
> I'm asking this because I'm not a gifted programmer. I am a gifted musician,
> so I know the difference. I've had to work very hard to
> learn what I know about programming, so computers still hold a lot of mystery
> for me.
>
> OK. Time for me to again get things all stirred up. If you are someone who
> just wants to browse the web, make documents and
> spreadsheets, use e-mail, and so on, and still get people who use Windows to
> read and write your documents, and read and write
> theirs, what is so great about Vinux. I mean, if you are not a hacker, and
> you just want to turn on your computer and have it work
> as well as your Windows machine works now, what is so great about all of
> this, religeous views aside?
>
> Jim Homme,
> Usability Services,
> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
> Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility here.
> Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility
> advice
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Don Marang
> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 1:24 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Low Risk Vinuxx; was Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for
> Visually Impaired Coders?
>
> Most computers have a key to hold down while starting up that provides a list
> of devices to boot from. On my Dell computers, this
> is the F12 key.
> This will override the BIOS boot up sequence for that session. The top item,
> "Boot from HD" is selected. Pressing the Down Arrow
> once will select "Boot from CD/DVD". If a USB device is detected, it will be
> placed between the HD and CD options. So normally,
> holding down the F12 key for about 5 seconds after turning on the computer,
> then pressing the Down Arrow key once, and pressing
> Enter will boot from the CD/DVD.
>
> If your BIOS has a password set, I would doubt if it would let you boot from
> CD and reformat the hard disk. I know there are Ubuntu
> tools to break unknown Windows passwords. I have them installed on my USB
> Rescue Flash drive. I do not think it handles BIOS
> passwords. I would do a Google search. I would not be surprised that there
> is a Ubuntu package out there to break BIOS passwords.
>
> Creating a USB Rescue Flash drive is easy. Download the Vinux 3.0 USB tool
> below and install the desired rescue packages. The
> third link, step 24, is an example of installing the common rescue packages.
> The 'chntpw' package is the Windows password tool.
> You can install other Ubuntu packages in the same manner.
>
> Vinux Virtual World download page:
> http://vinuxvirtual.org.uk/downloads
>
> USB creation tool direct link: (works from Windows)
> http://vinuxvirtual.org.uk/lucid/Vinux-3.0-USB-Win.zip
>
> Create Vinux Rescue DVD including Image for Linux:
> http://wiki.vinuxvirtual.org.uk/index.php?title=Vinux_How-To_Page#Create_a_Vinux_Rescue_DVD_Which_Includes_Image_for_Linux
>
> Don Marang
>
> There is just so much stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of any real
> substance, value, and content that I just try to make
> sure that I am working on things that matter.
> Dean Kamen
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Alex Midence" <alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 12:12 AM
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Low Risk Vinuxx; was Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for
> Visually Impaired Coders?
>
>> I have been tinkering with it using a live cd and I'm finding it quite
>> addictive. Wish someone would put together a live cd download of
>> vinux with emacs speak with Espeak as the desktop that comes up
>> instead of gnome. Be neat to try it out.
>>
>> While I'm wishing, I wish I could get this old pc I've got lying
>> around to boot up with it. My wife isn't very computer literate and I
>> can't get her to describe the bios methods for me that would let me
>> configure the thing to boot from cd. The PC has windows 98 on it and
>> died the death some years ago when it choked on a bios virus that did
>> nasty mean things to it. Now, it won't come up even with windows if
>> you don't put in a password at the bios prompt. Before the OS is even
>> launched. I don't know the password. There probably really isn't
>> one. Pity because it used to work great. It's got a 40 gig hard
>> drive and about 512 megs of ram. Vinux would run just fine on it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Alex M
>>
>>
>> On 10/14/10, Don Marang <donald.marang@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> Vinux has several low risk methods, besides using a live CD or DVD.
>>> From your favorite version of Windows, you can run Vinux in a VMware
>>> Player Virtual Machine (VM). You can download a preconfigured VM at:
>>> Vinux Virtual Edition -
>>> http://vinuxvirtual.org.uk
>>>
>>> For better performance, and as a great Rescue Device, I recommend
>>> checking out creating an USB Flash drive with persistance. The above
>>> site also has a Windows tool to create such a device.
>>>
>>>
>>> Don Marang
>>>
>>> There is just so much stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of
>>> any real substance, value, and content that I just try to make sure
>>> that I am working on things that matter.
>>> Dean Kamen
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Homme, James" <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:33 PM
>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Subject: RE: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired Coders?
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> If I would get an external hard drive, would that work, and is
>>>> someone willing to lose their hair in the act of trying to help me do this?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>> Jim Homme,
>>>> Usability Services,
>>>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme Internal recipients, Read my
>>>> accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility here. Accessibility Wiki:
>>>> Breaking news and accessibility advice
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris
>>>> Hofstader
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:02 PM
>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired
>>>> Coders?
>>>>
>>>> Hi Jim,
>>>>
>>>> Item 1: A few people on this list could help you install the VM
>>>> based Vinux on a Windows computer running VMWare Player. I'm
>>>> probably not the best source for this help (Sina knows it much
>>>> better than I do) but we could spend some time writing up the things
>>>> you need to download to get started and then maybe talking to you on
>>>> the phone through the installation process. A spare hard disk to
>>>> house your virtual machines might give you greater peace of mind
>>>> knowing that your Vinux distro won't even know about your main hard
>>>> drive and, therefore, cannot destroy your valuable data.
>>>>
>>>> Item 2: I'm told that their is emacspeak for Windows but, right now,
>>>> I don't have Windows running on anything in my Cambridge home so I
>>>> can't find the download and try the installation to give you any
>>>> useful help on getting emacspeak running on Windows.
>>>>
>>>> cdh
>>>> On Oct 14, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Homme, James wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Chris,
>>>>> I truly wish I were brave enough to install Vinux. Someday I'll
>>>>> grab a spare machine and give it a try. Does Emacs Speak happen to
>>>>> work on Windows?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim Homme,
>>>>> Usability Services,
>>>>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme Internal recipients, Read my
>>>>> accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility here. Accessibility Wiki:
>>>>> Breaking news and accessibility advice
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris
>>>>> Hofstader
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 8:27 AM
>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired
>>>>> Coders?
>>>>>
>>>>> Using emacspeak is sort of like having a fully accessible OS but in
>>>>> a semi self voicing, semi screen reader environment. I like to use
>>>>> it for programming but it is the ultimate talking multi-tool.
>>>>>
>>>>> cdh
>>>>> On Oct 14, 2010, at 4:19 AM, <Nick.Adamson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In answer to the subject field my answer is yes.
>>>>>> Just a couple of thoughts.
>>>>>> We have got to be careful about limiting our selves.
>>>>>> I'm in general agreement with what's been said however we have to
>>>>>> face facts. We live in a visual world. When I tell people I'm a
>>>>>> computer programmer almost the first question I get asked is how
>>>>>> can you see the screen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also think the idea of an OS which doesn't have a GUI which
>>>>>> would avoid having to have a complex expensive screen reader on is
>>>>>> a nice idea in theory but there are a couple of points which would
>>>>>> make it in practical. This OS would typically be for the VI
>>>>>> market, which means it would be a specialist development. This
>>>>>> means it would need to be open source or proprietary for an access
>>>>>> tech company. If you think screen readers are complex they are
>>>>>> nothing to a full operating system. This would indicate that the
>>>>>> price would be hefty Or not commercially supported in the instance
>>>>>> of an Open source OS.
>>>>>> The other major limitation on a new OS would be support in an
>>>>>> industrial environment. For example the company I work for has a
>>>>>> specific build of windows XP aloud on the network, it won't let
>>>>>> you have other builds of XP connected unless otherwise approved
>>>>>> and just forget about non windows based OS, not a chance, this is
>>>>>> not that unusual in a work environment.
>>>>>> Also I would be afraid that it would button hole us and make it
>>>>>> harder for one of us to get a job as a software engineer. If you
>>>>>> tern up for a job interview and you don't have any experience
>>>>>> developing for the platform your potential employer targets its
>>>>>> another thing that marks you down in comparison to anyone else
>>>>>> going for the job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other worry is if a blind developer had no GUI development
>>>>>> skills at all. As has been said on this thread for a sighted
>>>>>> person to put together a gui its pretty quick so its a normal
>>>>>> thing a sighted developer can do.
>>>>>> I'd like to think that I'm someone who will give almost anything
>>>>>> ago and try not to let the fact I can't see a screen make a
>>>>>> difference to the work I do.
>>>>>> With this philosophy in mind there are 2 questions I was asked
>>>>>> that a normal developer wouldn't have been in the job interview
>>>>>> which resulted in me getting the job I've been doing for the last
>>>>>> 5 and a half years.
>>>>>> 1. How would you be able to use the graphical UML design tools and
>>>>>> show software design in a similar way to other developers?
>>>>>> 2. Can and how do you develop GUI's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Write away there you can see the interviewer seeing problems that
>>>>>> need to be answered to find out if I can do the job. I know some
>>>>>> people who would have thought it improper to ask these questions
>>>>>> but in my mind if they hadn't been asked there would have still
>>>>>> been a question mark next to me when it came down to selecting the
>>>>>> successful candidate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been told since that it was the "I may not do it in the
>>>>>> normal way but it will get done" attitude of the answers that I
>>>>>> gave which swayed the panel in my way as it showed my attitude to
>>>>>> everything, not just my blindness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If my answers would have been
>>>>>> 1. I don't do graphical design. Its pointless, I do everything in
>>>>>> a text file.
>>>>>> 2. I don't do GUI's, other people are better at it than I am.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It shows a defeatist attitude, not something most employers are
>>>>>> looking for.
>>>>>> Yes, sighted people can be quicker at both these particular
>>>>>> software skills but other things I bring to the table I could be
>>>>>> better at than others in the team, not because I'm blind but
>>>>>> because I just am. A team is made up of individuals with varying
>>>>>> skills.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lets not get away from the fact that the negative answers above do
>>>>>> have an element of truth. If I had my way my design wouldn't be
>>>>>> done in UML and I wouldn't do GUI development but I don't work in
>>>>>> a bubble.
>>>>>> Sighted
>>>>>> people review, approve and use software and designs that I've
>>>>>> generated and as I said we live in a visual world.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, enough rambling from me.
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Nick.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Kerneels Roos
>>>>>> Sent: 13 October 2010 16:08
>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired Coders?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This message was posted to a reply on the long thread about Oracle
>>>>>> accessibility concerns involving Java. I thought I'd post it again
>>>>>> with a new subject, since it deviates from the original topic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can't agree more your this statement Jay. As much as all of us
>>>>>> want to create nice GUIs, it is really such such a battel for
>>>>>> someone that can't see properly, if you are honest with yourself.
>>>>>> I would say that the FB examples are indicative of this, since the
>>>>>> FB concept is very simple yet for a visually impaired person to
>>>>>> build a GUI is a massive task in all fairness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't catch the whole story with the recent critisism of the
>>>>>> FB examples, but I can understand why a professor for example
>>>>>> would ridicule having the logic and presentation code (GUI code)
>>>>>> all in one file. (or any other aspect of the FB stuff that servce
>>>>>> the purpose of aiding blind people) It's a poor design choice for
>>>>>> anything but an example, but then, that's exactly what the FB
>>>>>> examples are -- tools to show you simple GUI creation in various
>>>>>> programming languages.
>>>>>> Personally I think it's great and I commend all the contributors.
>>>>>> It's a service to the community, but sighted people will struggle
>>>>>> to see it's worth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We must understand, for a fully sighted person, building GUIs is
>>>>>> rediculously easy and straight forward. No matter what kind of
>>>>>> accessible GUI designer tools there might be in future, the
>>>>>> playing field will never be level when it comes to anything
>>>>>> graphic. Yet there is no reason for despair, since there are
>>>>>> numerous other areas in computer sciense and programming in
>>>>>> particular where a blind person could compete well and I'm
>>>>>> speculating that there might even be areas where having no or little
>>>>>> sight might aid you!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One particular small project I worked on while studying at
>>>>>> university springs to mind. It was a little applet developed with
>>>>>> AWT or Swing that saved your bookmarks in a tree structure. The
>>>>>> professor was a gracious man, and he gave us a nice score for the
>>>>>> project, but he stepped in after we did our presentation and
>>>>>> basically told the class that we really did spend much time on
>>>>>> this and that we didn't just download it from the net or
>>>>>> something... He did this, I think, because our project was fairly
>>>>>> inferiour graphic wise compaired to the elaborate graphics the
>>>>>> other student's projects sported even though I spent hours and
>>>>>> hours on the little GUI side of the software.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's heart breaking for me when I read how hard blind folks try
>>>>>> and make appealing graphical interfaces, or when I read about the
>>>>>> struggles some software causes blind guys. It's commendable to see
>>>>>> how people cope with the worst of situations, but there are also
>>>>>> better areas to focus on,, areas where you'll be far more
>>>>>> productive and make a better impact .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a complex topic for me and there are much to say about it.
>>>>>> What I'm wondering is if it is not a good time to review the way
>>>>>> disabled people are trained up to believe that interaction with
>>>>>> computers should commence in the generally accepted form of having
>>>>>> a "normal" or sighted OS with all highly graphical applications
>>>>>> with a rediculously advanced and complex and expensive screen
>>>>>> reader stuck on top of it all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And then, on the other hand, how we can identify better software
>>>>>> development areas to focus on where blindness poses less of an
>>>>>> obsticle.
>>>>>> Also, how we can advance in those areas and properly promote
>>>>>> ourselves and our value to a software development shop developing
>>>>>> for the general public or business where accessibility is of
>>>>>> little concern. Myself for one have a little bit of a complex when
>>>>>> think of all my years experience as a software developer and yet
>>>>>> the difficulty with which I'm faced with when having to develop a
>>>>>> GUI, and how someone with far less experience than myself could
>>>>>> code a GUI so much faster and better looking in less time and with
>>>>>> less effort.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My challenge to the list; let's draw up a specification of areas
>>>>>> in programming and computer science where visually impaired people
>>>>>> can excell at in the modern age where graphics does play such a
>>>>>> ever increasingly important part.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Armed with such a specification we'll be in the right position to
>>>>>> start and focus efforts on training ourselves up in those areas
>>>>>> and then sharing knowledge and awareness so that a wel trained
>>>>>> blind programmer (in the identified fields) could approach any
>>>>>> development house with confidence of his / her abilities and value
>>>>>> she / he will add to a company.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kerneels
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/13/2010 12:31 AM, Jay Macarty wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would advise spending time on web development with java on
>>>>>> the server side. Either that or headless java development such as
>>>>>> web services. Both directions can allow a person to grow into a
>>>>>> very strong java developer with very marketable skill sets without
>>>>>> fighting the constant battle of either swing accessibility or
>>>>>> trying to gain skills in an API, swt, which may have somewhat
>>>>>> limited acceptence in a large traditional java shop. Personally, I
>>>>>> love swt; however, as a tech lead, I can't push it into a project
>>>>>> here because it is not an accepted technology by our enterprise
>>>>>> architects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Homme, James"
>>>>>> <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 7:02 AM
>>>>>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious
>>>>>> consideration, IMHO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Jay,
>>>>>> Would you advise someone new to Java to spend more time on
>>>>>> Swing, SWT, or web?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim Homme,
>>>>>> Usability Services,
>>>>>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
>>>>>> Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog. Discuss
>>>>>> accessibility here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and
>>>>>> accessibility advice
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jay
>>>>>> Macarty
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 3:31 PM
>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious
>>>>>> consideration, IMHO
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Over the past couple of years, I have been involved in hiring
>>>>>> java
>>>>>> developers several times. One of the things we have had
>>>>>> trouble with is
>>>>>> finding people with swing experience. It seems that, while
>>>>>> there are
>>>>>> certainly a number of applications still using swing heavily,
>>>>>> a lot of java
>>>>>> development is moving away from swing based GUI interfaces to
>>>>>> using web
>>>>>> based front-ends. Perhaps, Oracle thinks that a declining
>>>>>> interest in using
>>>>>> swing as a UI means they don't need to spend as much effort
>>>>>> on swing
>>>>>> accessibility but that thought path can certainly leave those
>>>>>> of us who
>>>>>> still need access to heavily swing based apps in a spot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Stanzel, Susan - Kansas City, MO"
>>>>>> <susan.stanzel@xxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:susan.stanzel@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 8:11 PM
>>>>>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious
>>>>>> consideration, IMHO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Listers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have not stepped into this until now. I would hope that
>>>>>> needing government
>>>>>> contracts in the United States would have some affect on all
>>>>>> this. I have
>>>>>> asked people about swing and I am told it isn't used very
>>>>>> much because there
>>>>>> is newer technology out there. I am not an experienced Java
>>>>>> programmer so
>>>>>> maybe the rest of you will know more than I do. I know we use
>>>>>> Struts at my
>>>>>> building for creation of web projects. If I have just made a
>>>>>> fool of myself,
>>>>>> it's not the first time and won't be the last. (grin).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Susie Stanzel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> The Elf
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 7:08 PM
>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious
>>>>>> consideration, IMHO
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hey, this is my usual line, "beat them into submission" lol
>>>>>>
>>>>>> or hound,or pummel, or...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> elf
>>>>>> Moderator, Blind Access Help
>>>>>> Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
>>>>>> Specialists in customized computers and peripherals
>>>>>> - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!
>>>>>> www.alacorncomputer.com
>>>>>> proprietor, The Grab Bag,
>>>>>> for blind computer users and programmers
>>>>>> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> <mailto:sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 10:14 AM
>>>>>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious
>>>>>> consideration, IMHO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow, it only took like 15 emails on the subject, but
>>>>>> finally the voice of
>>>>>> reason has made itself known.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken, I completely agree. Now is the time to pressure
>>>>>> them into actually
>>>>>> not abandoning it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>> Sina
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Ken Perry
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 1:10 AM
>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious
>>>>>> consideration, IMHO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If this is true then it's not time to tell people to
>>>>>> stay away. It's time
>>>>>> to get people to get active and start emailing and
>>>>>> calling them till they do support it. If we stay
>>>>>> away we lose what
>>>>>> accessibility was there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Storm Dragon
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 11:09 PM
>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious
>>>>>> consideration, IMHO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I would not doubt it for one second. They dropped the
>>>>>> ball on Linux
>>>>>> accessibility pretty much first thing when they took
>>>>>> over Sun.
>>>>>> It's probably a good idea, if you have influence over
>>>>>> software decisions,
>>>>>> to encourage companies, clients, and friends to stay
>>>>>> far
>>>>>>
>>>>>> far away from Oracle and their software. I was even
>>>>>> going to get rid of
>>>>>> Open Office but fortunately the version used in
>>>>>> Ubuntu is a
>>>>>> fork so not subject to them. unless, that is, they
>>>>>> somehow manage to win
>>>>>> their evil attack on Google. If that happens, who
>>>>>> knows who
>>>>>> they will attack next. Keep your fingers crossed, and
>>>>>> maybe the open
>>>>>> source community will keep the Bridge going, Orca is
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> alive and well after all.
>>>>>> Storm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux user number 508465:
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> My blog, Thoughts of a Dragon:
>>>>>> http://www.stormdragon.us/
>>>>>> Get yourself a Frostbox:
>>>>>> http://www.frostbitesystems.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 2010-10-09 at 08:15 +0530, prateek aggarwal
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> oh know,
>>>>>> i wish its just a rumor.
>>>>>> if its ever going to be true, i'll be so said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>> prateek agarwal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/9/10, Jamal Mazrui <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> <mailto:empower@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I heard from a good source today that Oracle
>>>>>> has decided to discontinue
>>>>>> support for the Java Access Bridge (and no
>>>>>> alternative is planned). I
>>>>>> would be glad to be convinced otherwise. If
>>>>>> anyone has information
>>>>>> regarding this topic, please share.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jamal
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your
>>>>>> settings at
>>>>>>
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and
>>>>>> are intended solely for use of the individual or entity to whom
>>>>>> they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error,
>>>>>> please notify the sender immediately and then delete it. If you
>>>>>> are not the intended recipient, you must not keep, use, disclose,
>>>>>> copy or distribute this e-mail without the author's prior
>>>>>> permission. The views expressed in this e-mail message do not
>>>>>> necessarily represent the views of Highmark Inc., its
>>>>>> subsidiaries, or affiliates.
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kerneels Roos
>>>>>> Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998
>>>>>> Skype: cornelis.roos
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Common Sense" is not "Common Practice" .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The Strawberry Jam Law:
>>>>>> The wider you spread it, the thinner it gets..."
>>>>>> -- from the Java Specialist Newsletter, from a book on consulting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> __________
>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>
>>>>> __________
>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________
>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>
>>>> __________
>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>
>>>>
>>> __________
>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>
>>>
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>
>>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
> __________
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>
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>
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>
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