I'm not "hurling insults." I'm explaining why VS does what it does, and why hundreds (and thousands) like it that way. It keeps things organized. Why not just cram all books into one single file? It'd have the same affect.
On 8/7/2011 8:18 AM, Jamal Mazrui wrote:
Tyler,Evidently, one of your favorite pastimes is hurling insults at people on this list. For a while it appeared that you had matured from your early years, but there has been major regression lately. Your lack of people skills will be a serious hindrance to your career, unfortunately. I guess the destructive fun is more important to you now.Jamal On 8/7/2011 11:04 AM, Littlefield, Tyler wrote:You seem to see all the files that vs uses (not that many actually) as a problem. It just helps keep things organized, and is much much better than cramming 12000 lines into a text file. On 8/7/2011 5:09 AM, Jamal Mazrui wrote:VS definately generates much code automatically that one does not need. The same program can be written much more concisely, in far fewer files, than with VS generated code. This is a typical downside of an IDE that needs to be balanced against its advantages. Jamal On 8/6/2011 4:27 AM, black ares wrote:You compare two different things, HTML wysiwyg and IDEs.First type of applications generate indeed a lot of crapy code, but theproblem is not the crapy code generated, but the fact that, a lot of code loads very hard in a browser. On the other part, IDEs don't create a lot of crapy code, but only the code you need.If you examine the code generated by the visual studio you will see thatis the exact code you will gonna write if you know how to write code best. I didn't see any line there which I could say: "I can delete this, I don't need it.If you prefeer to loose time by writting a lot of non-sens code that can be generated automaticaly, it is your option, but don't promote that asthe best practice, because it isn't. More over, ides have a lot of features and simply saying that they are useless because you don't like automatic code generation is a sily thing. What about code completion, refactoring features and so on. Like in eclipse where you can write a class together with getters and setters with out writting code. You know what? I simply hate to write getters and setters becauze they take a lot of time and do nothing spectacular. So I am very happy when my IDE takes this from me and let me write the real code.Finally, about layout by code, I can use the visual studio designer anduse grid layout /table layout and make my windows forms/wpf look great in a decent time frame. So why I need layout by code? The aim is to get that piece of software as quickly as I can in the budget and quality envisioned? Or to loose time by writting code. If the goal is to simply write code for the sake of writting code, go on.But don't expect to be competitive when some one does the same software,same quality in less time. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katherine Moss" <Katherine.Moss@xxxxxxxxxx> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 12:59 AM Subject: RE: Layout by code - a wonderful tool but....I'm just saying that I like having the productivity features of VS, andI'm not saying that I wouldn't use the command line compilers for some tasks. I just would use both depending on the situation. -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Littlefield,Tyler Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 11:49 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Layout by code - a wonderful tool but....There is something you're not getting though. Someone who can write codeand understand it, even if it is to understand what the generated code does, is going to be a lot better at handling errors than someone who says "I can just flick through property dialogs and let vs do this all for me," because they don't know what that code does. An IDE is an awesome tool, but don't let it become your crutch. On 8/4/2011 7:07 PM, Katherine Moss wrote:I guess that since I find the designers and property dialogs of Visual studio relatively accessible, and I have books telling me not to worryabout the vs-generated code, I don't worry about it. I think it's quicker to click through a couple of property dialogs than it is to learn all of the code to create all of the gui elements as well, andmost of the information you find on the internet, when referring to C#at least, will lead you to tutorials with Visual studio. -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Trouble Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 9:10 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: Layout by code - a wonderful tool but.... Microsoft office will also load crap in the html. Doing something in a basic editor makes you learn the code not the short cuts to make the code. At 02:00 PM 8/4/2011, you wrote:Hi, If you decide not to use an IDE, you get total control over exactly what code gets dumped into your application. It's difficult to know what code VS is going to add. Way back a long time ago, I started tobuild web pages with FrontPage, and scrapped it, because it filled mypages with all kinds of bloaty stuff. I'm in no way against using an IDE, though, as long as you know whatit's going to do to your stuff. They help with productivity for sure.Jim -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of KatherineMoss Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 12:47 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: Layout by code - a wonderful tool but.... Why not? What if one is more comfortable (as am I when doing C# demo projects), using an IDE? -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 12:39 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: Layout by code - a wonderful tool but.... Hi, This is probably going to be a very silly question. Why are using VisualStudio at all with LBC? Jim -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bue Vester-Andersen Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 11:40 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: SV: Layout by code - a wonderfull tool but.... Hi again, Further to my problem with Layout by code. This time I tried the original FruitBasketCS program without modifications. When I go into the project properties and set output type to console application everything runs nicely, except for the anoying fact thata console window is created for the program which is not used anyway.When I change the output type to Windows Application the previously mentioned "invalid cast exception" occurs. Still, I can step through the program by using f10 and f11. In the meantime I also found out that the so-called ParkingWindowapparently seems to be an invisible window, a kind of clip-board thatis used when you move controls from one window to another. I must admit that I am getting more and more confused I hope someone can help me, please. I still think that using Layout by Code would be a great way for a blind person to make a user interface with a decent layout Best regards Bue -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] På vegne af Bue Vester-Andersen Sendt: 2. august 2011 21:09 Til: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Emne: Layout by code - a wonderfull tool but.... Hi, First of all a million thanks to Jamal for his great work. LBC is just about the most fantastic programming tool I have ever stumbled upon. I am congenitally blind and have always found it next to imposible to work out a layout that would work at all. Now for my problem: I am trying to make a template for use with Visual Studio 2008 building on the template for a Windows forms application. Everything compiles fine, but when I run the resulting program I get the following exception (translated from Danish): Invalid cast exception {"an object of the type 'Microsoft.VisualStudio.HostingProcess.ParkingWindow' can not be converted to the type 'Homer.LbcForm'."} The exception occurs at the CompleteWindow() call. It looks to me as if I was referencing the form before it is actually created. The funny thing is that everything works fine when I step into the code using f10 and f11. I don't suppose there could be a race condition? Hope someone can help me. Below is the code I am using. As I said, it is built on the Windows form application template. I thought that the use of componentinitialization might be the cause of my trouble, so I tried to removeall the designer and component stuff, but it didn't solve anything. LbcForm1.cs using System; using System.Collections.Generic; using System.ComponentModel; using System.Data; using System.Drawing; using System.Linq; using System.Text; using System.Windows.Forms; using Homer; namespace LBCFormsApplication1 { public partial class LbcForm1 : LbcForm { public LbcForm1() { InitializeComponent(); this.Init("LbcForm1", null, null); this.AddMyControlls(); } Private void AddMyControlls() { // Add controlls here. // AddButton("ok"); } public void OnEvent(string sEvent, Control oSender, EventArgs oArgs) { // Add event code here. } } } LbcForm1.Designer.cs namespace LBCFormsApplication1 { partial class LbcForm1 { ///<summary> /// Required designer variable. ///</summary> private System.ComponentModel.IContainer components = null; ///<summary> /// Clean up any resources being used. ///</summary> ///<param name="disposing">true if managed resources should be disposed; otherwise, false.</param> protected override void Dispose(bool disposing) { if (disposing&& (components != null)) { components.Dispose(); } base.Dispose(disposing); } #region Windows Form Designer generated code ///<summary> /// Required method for Designer support - do not modify /// the contents of this method with the code editor. ///</summary> private void InitializeComponent() { this.components = new System.ComponentModel.Container(); this.AutoScaleMode = System.Windows.Forms.AutoScaleMode.Font; } #endregion } } Program.cs using System; using System.Collections.Generic; using System.Linq; using System.Windows.Forms; namespace LBCFormsApplication1 { static class Program { ///<summary> /// The main entry point for the application. ///</summary> [STAThread] static void Main() { Application.EnableVisualStyles(); Application.SetCompatibleTextRenderingDefault(false); LbcForm1 oLbcForm = new LbcForm1(); // Add further initialization here. // Uncomment to run as window. oLbcForm.CompleteWindow(); // Uncomment to run as dialog. // oLbcForm.CompleteDialog(); } } } Best regards Bue __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and are intended solely for use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. 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-- Take care, Ty my website: http://tds-solutions.net my blog: http://tds-solutions.net/blog skype: st8amnd127 My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features! __________View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
