Re: Language of Choice for Network-aware Applications

  • From: "Donald Marang" <donald.marang@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 09:43:37 -0400

I figured that part out after a lot of frustration. At first it was just annoying. Then I was able to down arrow and select the desired completion for the current portion. But the only way I could find to select that portion was to press Enter. Of course, this was not the entire statement and the immediate error warnings started distracting me! After wasting a lot of time continually pressing Insert + Escape and F7 to get back to understanding what I am typing, I finally discovered that pressing Insert + 3, for the JAWS pass through command, followed by Alt + Right Arrow would allow the completion of that portion if I followed that by the next separator like a period or parenthesis.

Have I discovered most of the tricks the hard way, or just scratching the surface? I did find a good tutorial from this lists archives when performing a Google search. I think it dates back to 2004, but still is relevant and very useful. In fact, I would never have figured out how to layout my menus without it. Any other insights to this environment would be greatly appreciated. For instance, a way to temporarily turn off the immediate error warnings and the best way to get breif help on a specific topic with a sample. For instance, my next small details I need to look up today are how to write to the status line, where to place Constants for the entire App, and how to get it to insert the basic Suv code for menu item actions in .Net. I know Visual Studio has a lot of lookup capabilities, but I have not yet discovered how to make the best use of those capabilities.

Don Marang

From: "Martin Slack" <m.g.slack@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:56 AM
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Language of Choice for Network-aware Applications

Hi Don, Jamal,

In Intellisense, you need to type the appropriate separating character. So a period will complete the name of the current level and repopulate the Intellisense window with options for the next level. When you reach a method, you type an opening parenthesis and then you return to the code window and are prompted for the first parameter, and completing that and typing a comma will bring up a prompt for the next parameter. Note that if the method is overloaded, you can cycle through the options after you type the open paren with down arrow and the prompting will then reflect the parameters for your choice.


----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: Language of Choice for Network-aware Applications

Sorry, Don -- I accidentally replied directly to you when I think we both intended the discussion to stay on list so that others could chime in, too. This is copied to the list again.

I share some of your frustrations with IntelliSense and do not value it nearly as much as others seem to compared to other aspects of a development environment. Thus, let me ask others to explain how they use IntelliSense productively in Visual Studio, including answering Don's questions specifically if possible.


On 3/8/2010 11:10 AM, Donald Marang wrote:
I think Visual Studio Express' IntelliSense  feature could be very
useful. Especially if not completely familiar with the methods and
properties of an object. However, as a novice I find it annoying and
frustrating. My biggest problem with it is that as I type it pops up
with canidates. Sometimes I am just trying to type and it is
distracting. Other times, I attempt to use it to complete a portion of
the statement or browse through the different canidates, like an
object's properties or methods. Unfortunately, I a missing an important
part of it's use. The only way I have succeeded in having it complete
the statement with the canidate is to press Enter. How do you make it
complete that component with the selected canidate and continue to the
next portion of the statement, like the parameters for a method? It
sounded like I needed to use Alt + Right Arrow, but that did not select
the canidate and continue. Can someone inform me how to do this correctly?

Thanks for the links for the Python tutorials. It sounds like a great
skill to know.

Don Marang

From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:54 AM
To: "Donald Marang" <donald.marang@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Language of Choice for Network-aware Applications

EdSharp does not have an IntelliSense (command completion) feature or
a GUI forms designer, but I think its editing conveniences with speech
make it more productive than dedicated Python IDEs, which tend to have
significant accessibility problems because of the GUI library they
typically use (TK).

A huge collection of Python text tutorials is at

When starting with EdSharp, try the Alternate Menu command, Alt+F10,
and the Key Describer toggle, Control+F1.


On 3/5/2010 12:08 PM, Donald Marang wrote:
Thanks Jamal for the great response. I thought Python might get
suggested. I have heard good things about it as a well thought out,
structured language. I know little about it. My impression was that it
was a rapid development interpreted language, similar to pearl, but
more. Could anyone recommend a Tutorial on Python? Perhaps it is time
for me to take a little time to learn a new language / environment.

I had Ed Sharp installed at one time and was impressed and overwhelmed
at it's features. Since Python is a rapid development language, isn't it most productive when used in a complete development environment? Does Ed
Sharp integrate into an environment like Eclipse or provide some of
these features itself?

By the way, one of the packages in the Python list you provided is for
DLNA. It is called Coherence. It provides full DLNA Server and Renderer
(player) libraries. I am not sure yet if it has any controler
implementation which I am looking for to support my project.

Don Marang

From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 8:07 AM
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "Donald Marang" <donald.marang@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Language of Choice for Network-aware Applications

Hi Don,
I recommend Python for what you want to do. I think you would make the
quickest progress with its dynamic features and library support, an
almost complete list of which is at

I think Eclipse is accessible. That is not the same thing as highly
usable and productive, however. Oppinion seems to vary significantly
among screen reader users on that point. Many beginners have expressed
an interest in JAWS scripts to improve the usability of Eclipse, but
so far no one has taken up the project, as far as I know.

Of course I am biased about this, but if you choose to program in
Python, I think EdSharp

will be the most productive editor as a JAWS user. It has many
features for managing indentation efficiently with speech -- a
necessity with Python.

Just my two cents.

On 3/2/2010 2:40 PM, Donald Marang wrote:

I am considering embarking on developing a network and media aware
Digital Living Network Alliance (DLNA)application. I hope to be
able to
use one of the available DLNA SDK packages, perhaps open source, to do
the heavy work. Most of these SDK's are evolved from an open source
project from Intel. I would be starting out with a simple interface to
implement what is called a DMC, Digital Media Controller in DLNA
terminology. It allows someone to select media from a DLNA server,
can be on local computers or directed to serve up Internet content,
tell it where you want to play the media. The rendering devices
Computers (especially Windows 7), PS3, XBox, Internet connected
Home Theaters, TVs, DVRs, and so on. There is software to to do
this and
much more, like, which runs on several platforms including
the iPhone, iPod Touch or Android! That would be a great
controller, but
I would need to get the present I gave my wife back. Not going to
Which language would you experts suggest for this type of application? The Eyecon software uses Java and Python, I can not remember which was used for the graphical controller. There are SDKs for many languages,
including C++, Java, Python, and C.
I played around a bit with Visual Studio Express C#. It certainly
betterr than Visual Basic. I like what I have heard about Eclipse so
far. Is it accessible with JAWS? Can it handle these languages? Can it
support cross platform development? I do not know why that is so
important for a personal project and I do not have a variety of
platforms. I guess it is engraved in my sole, since I promoted that
during my whole career.
Don Marang

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