Re: Java versus Python

  • From: "John J. Boyer" <john.boyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 21:51:57 -0500

I am using openjdk, so I am not beholden to Oracle. I think, in fact, 
that they cooperate with the openjdk project.

John

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 09:53:27PM -0400, Storm Dragon wrote:
> Hi,
> It could be a good thing that Orca and NVDA aren't written in Java. It's
> nothing against the language itself, but it was acquired by Oracle, and
> they haven't been the nicest of players in the open source community.
> Android is written in Java, and they had a lot of problems with Oracle
> trying to get a slice of the pie. I do realize that 2 screen readers
> that don't charge anything to their users are hardly a good target for
> the greedy, but then there's the trust issue as well. Better to keep it
> out of temptation. Open Office, for example, was hardly a huge cash cow,
> but the project was forced to fork in order to stay, for lack of a
> better word, good. And, even if all this has resolved itself, and even
> if Oracle decided to play nicely from now on, they still need watching,
> and I personally would prefer not to use anything on which I would have
> to depend every day to them or something they control. I do have an
> Android, but I do think Google can hold their own against them, or if
> worst comes to worst, switch languages in a hurry. sure it would be
> expensive, but it's Google after all lol.
> Thanks
> Storm
> -- 
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> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2011-06-18 at 19:56 -0500, John J. Boyer wrote:
> 
> > Why are NVDA and Orca written in Python? With SWT they could be written 
> > inn Java. SWT has an accesibility package. In BrailleBlaster so far I 
> > have used a StyledText widget for the braille and Daisy views. It works 
> > with Jaws, Orca and VoiceOver right out of the box. people have been 
> > surprised that the Java Access Bridge is not needed. There are some 
> > accessibibility quirks, so we will  probably supplement StyledText with 
> > some things from the accessability package.
> > 
> > BrailleBlaster is run from a simple desktop shortcut to the jar file. 
> > For a screen reader you would want an exe. This could be done using JNI. 
> > In fact, I looked into this before realizing that it wasn't needed for 
> > BrailleBlaster.
> > 
> > John
> > 
> > On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 05:33:55PM -0400, Ken Perry wrote:
> > > This is true python was great but we had to ditch it because the python
> > > framework slowed what we were doing way to much so we have now went to a
> > > typed language but still use some scripting style language for lighter
> > > lifting.
> > > 
> > > Ken
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of black ares
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 2:26 PM
> > > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: Re: Java versus Python
> > > 
> > > You are right john,
> > > developing "quick" also at least often means "developing for the moment", 
> > > on
> > > 
> > > the long run this gain in productivity is over passed by the mentenance 
> > > heavy duty.
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "John J. Boyer" <john.boyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 3:45 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Java versus Python
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > One reason we chose Java for BrailleBlaster is SWT. It really works as a
> > > > cross-platform GUI builder. Once you get into a complex project the
> > > > advantages of being able to develop something quickly in Python are much
> > > > less.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 03:22:52PM +0300, black ares wrote:
> > > >> In fact it isn't a matter of preference.
> > > >> Best trained profesionals in this area choose the platform and 
> > > >> technology
> > > >> best tailored to the project needs.
> > > >> So If I have a project that I can do better and quick in python than I 
> > > >> will
> > > >> choose that langgage.
> > > >> If options are better in java I will choose it.
> > > >> Depends very much on the project requirements.
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > >> From: "David Tseng" <davidct1209@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 5:15 AM
> > > >> Subject: Re: Java versus Python
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> >I personally find arguments about programming languages much analogous
> > > >> >to those seen in politics.  Both sides have great points but tend to
> > > >> >drive one another towards opposite extremes.  Some camps are die hard
> > > >> >dynamic language practitioners while others stick to strongly typed
> > > >> >code.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >I will say that strongly typed languages have kind of won the battle
> > > >> >historically.  Most of the industry writes in C-styled languages like
> > > >> >C/C++, java, etc.  Lisp, still beloved by many, kind of lost.  Python,
> > > >> >as many have shown, works wonderfully and frees up coders to actually
> > > >> >code, is still largely a wrapper on C.  For those who want absolute
> > > >> >performance, it's considered still an extra level of indirection
> > > >> >that's not worth the productivity gain.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >I love python and its free-form style and the amount of progress you
> > > >> >can make using it.  Python excels at the rinse and repeat (compile,
> > > >> >run, fix) style of coding.  The few seconds you need to compile a
> > > >> >C-styled language and run, you're already fixing the bug in python.
> > > >> >You're not babied into writing object-oriented code ala java, but can
> > > >> >independently mix in functional aspects if you wish.  You can just as
> > > >> >easily go OO if you want as well.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >On 6/17/11, Alex Hall <mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >> >>Programming is certainly a matter of preference in most situations. I
> > > >> >>would probably give up if the only option were php, since I really
> > > >> >>hate that language (no offense to anyone). Java is easy enough, but I
> > > >> >>agree that it feels bulky at times. I like Python's ease of use and
> > > >> >>readability, plus you can create executables with it, something that
> > > >> >>is difficult in java. Some people don't like that python is loosely
> > > >> >>typed, but I prefer saying:
> > > >> >>name=raw_input("Enter your name: ")
> > > >> >>to, if memory serves:
> > > >> >>name=new String();
> > > >> >>in=new InputReader();
> > > >> >>name=in.readLine();
> > > >> >>or something along those lines.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>On 6/17/11, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >> >>>I've used both. I really like python because it comes on most *nix
> > > >> >>>systems. I also like Python because of it's flexability and 
> > > >> >>>versatility.
> > > >> >>>Java is nice enough, but it feels big bulky and clunky to me. That 
> > > >> >>>and
> > > >> >>>they seem to have some serious naming convention issues. Sometimes
> > > >> >>>things are capitalized, sometimes they're not--.net makes more 
> > > >> >>>sense.
> > > >> >>>On 6/17/2011 6:49 PM, John J. Boyer wrote:
> > > >> >>>>There has been a lot of discussion on the list lately about 
> > > >> >>>>Python. 
> > > >> >>>>Why
> > > >> >>>>is that?Personally i much prefer Java. Its syntx makes a lot more 
> > > >> >>>>sense
> > > >> >>>>and it is just as powerful, if not more. A command-line build 
> > > >> >>>>system
> > > >> >>>>like ant can take most of the hassle out of working with Java 
> > > >> >>>>classes.
> > > >> >>>>personally, I prefer this to Eclipse.
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>BrailleBlaster is written in Java. I am using openjdk-1.6, Eclipse 
> > > >> >>>>SWT
> > > >> >>>>and Apache Ant.
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>John
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>--
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>Take care,
> > > >> >>>Ty
> > > >> >>>my website:
> > > >> >>>http://tds-solutions.net
> > > >> >>>my blog:
> > > >> >>>http://tds-solutions.net/blog
> > > >> >>>skype: st8amnd127
> > > >> >>>My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features!
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>__________
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> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>--
> > > >> >>Have a great day,
> > > >> >>Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
> > > >> >>mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
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> > > > -- 
> > > > John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer
> > > > Abilitiessoft, Inc.
> > > > http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> > > > Madison, Wisconsin USA
> > > > Developing software for people with disabilities
> > > >
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-- 
John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer
Abilitiessoft, Inc.
http://www.abilitiessoft.com
Madison, Wisconsin USA
Developing software for people with disabilities

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