Re: Java versus Python

  • From: Kerneels Roos <kerneels@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:52:39 +0200

Ha ha! Very interesting thread and list in general. People just don't get offended please, even if the comments are apparently harsh. If harsh comments were intended to stab and you don't take offence they are rendered harmless. If harsh comments are not intended to stab and you get offended you come away the fool. If harsh comments were not intended to stab and you don't get offended then bravo, you've championed your ego! 


Some Python to clear things up:

if (harsh_comment.stab) and recipient.offended:
    no_one_wins = True
    both_are_fools = True
    everyone_on_list_irratated = True
elif comment.stab and not recipient.offended:
    recipient_wins = True
    recipient_championed_ego = True
elif (not harsh_comment.stab) and recipient.offend:
    no_one_wins = True
    recipient_fool = True
elif (not comment.stab) and not recipient.offended:
    no_one_wins = False
    world_is_a_wonderful_place = True
    both_value_each_others_comments = True
    list_happy = True


something like that ha ha


On 6/18/2011 11:50 PM, Littlefield, Tyler wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to answer posts you said you wouldn't. It might be worth pointing out that I didn't start this thread, but beyond that. Have you considered it was your code that broke, and not python itself? It's pretty easy to say "gosh, it's slow, must be language x, it for sure can't be -me- that made it slow now, can it? 
On 6/18/2011 3:42 PM, Ken Perry wrote:
Sina I have told Tylor that I will not respond to anything he posts so this is pushing it to answer your post here but yes I have went as far as python can go and it broke. I don't like mentioning it because python is a great language for many things. but yes our rather large python project which is pretty much an accessible front end for Linux, word processor, web browser, 
media player, radio tuner, book reader, twitter application, rss reader,
email, all wrote in python Just got to the point where python was slowing things down even know the major lifting was done with c++ modules. So while we could crank out more and more apps they got slower and slower. So yes we took python where we thought it could go and it broke. I already mentioned once where a block of code looked right but was not for example something 
like this

if expression :
    do something

   do something
   do something
   do something

Now that looks right if you intended the whole 4 lines to be in the if
statement but if you were blocking the three lines and they took the
indentation which some editors do you might not notice you had it at the
same level as a blind coder. This happened actually to a sighted coder and 
the code was in for a long time and I mean years before it was finally
found. Luckily it was not that important a bit of code but it took a blind guy and some pain staking looking to find the problem. Granted this don't happen a lot but it does happen more than it does in languages that use true 
blocks of code.
As for the typing of the language don't get me started you don't know how many times I and others have pushed stuff from the web into a sqlite3 data base and taken it out and got nothing like we expected because of unicode and Ascii. I still like python for quick stuff but give me a typed language 
any day.

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 2:39 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Java versus Python

I have, as has Ken more than me, and both of us have experienced the
complete misery that is the lack of proper typing in
multiperson development teams.
Out of curiosity, have you? been in a multiple person development team, I 
mean, so that you can back up how well Python works?

Take care,
Sina

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Littlefield,
Tyler
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:48 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Java versus Python

Have you coded in python frequently enough to be able to back up the
statement that coding in Python dies after big projects? I've added to
some python projects and you can still code just as fast.
On 6/18/2011 6:45 AM, John J. Boyer wrote:
One reason we chose Java for BrailleBlaster is SWT. It really works as a 
cross-platform GUI builder. Once you get into a complex project the
advantages of being able to develop something quickly in Python are much 
less.

John

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 03:22:52PM +0300, black ares wrote:

In fact it isn't a matter of preference.
Best trained profesionals in this area choose the platform and technology 
best tailored to the project needs.
So If I have a project that I can do better and quick in python than I

will

choose that langgage.
If options are better in java I will choose it.
Depends very much on the project requirements.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Tseng"<davidct1209@xxxxxxxxx>
To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: Java versus Python
I personally find arguments about programming languages much analogous 
to those seen in politics.  Both sides have great points but tend to
drive one another towards opposite extremes.  Some camps are die hard
dynamic language practitioners while others stick to strongly typed
code.

I will say that strongly typed languages have kind of won the battle
historically.  Most of the industry writes in C-styled languages like
C/C++, java, etc. Lisp, still beloved by many, kind of lost. Python, 
as many have shown, works wonderfully and frees up coders to actually
code, is still largely a wrapper on C.  For those who want absolute
performance, it's considered still an extra level of indirection
that's not worth the productivity gain.

I love python and its free-form style and the amount of progress you
can make using it.  Python excels at the rinse and repeat (compile,
run, fix) style of coding.  The few seconds you need to compile a
C-styled language and run, you're already fixing the bug in python.
You're not babied into writing object-oriented code ala java, but can
independently mix in functional aspects if you wish.  You can just as
easily go OO if you want as well.



On 6/17/11, Alex Hall<mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx>   wrote:
Programming is certainly a matter of preference in most situations. I 
would probably give up if the only option were php, since I really
hate that language (no offense to anyone). Java is easy enough, but I 
agree that it feels bulky at times. I like Python's ease of use and
readability, plus you can create executables with it, something that
is difficult in java. Some people don't like that python is loosely
typed, but I prefer saying:
name=raw_input("Enter your name: ")
to, if memory serves:
name=new String();
in=new InputReader();
name=in.readLine();
or something along those lines.

On 6/17/11, Littlefield, Tyler<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>   wrote:

I've used both. I really like python because it comes on most *nix
systems. I also like Python because of it's flexability and

versatility.
Java is nice enough, but it feels big bulky and clunky to me. That and 
they seem to have some serious naming convention issues. Sometimes
things are capitalized, sometimes they're not--.net makes more sense. 
On 6/17/2011 6:49 PM, John J. Boyer wrote:
There has been a lot of discussion on the list lately about Python. 
Why

is that?Personally i much prefer Java. Its syntx makes a lot more

sense
and it is just as powerful, if not more. A command-line build system 
like ant can take most of the hassle out of working with Java

classes.

personally, I prefer this to Eclipse.

BrailleBlaster is written in Java. I am using openjdk-1.6, Eclipse

SWT

and Apache Ant.

John


--

Take care,
Ty
my website:
http://tds-solutions.net
my blog:
http://tds-solutions.net/blog
skype: st8amnd127
My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features!

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Have a great day,
Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
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--
Kerneels Roos
Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998
Skype: cornelis.roos

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