Not it will always print both even if you specify none. -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of black ares Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 4:28 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Java versus Python hmm... doesn't it print "my string" when you specify only the int argument??? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 8:52 PM Subject: RE: Java versus Python > > No not dictionaries named variables. For example > > Def myfunc (stringArg="my string",intArg=1): > Print "%d %s" % (intArg,StringArg) > > Then you can do > > myFunc(stringArg="blah") > myFunc(intArg=5) > myfunc("blah",9) > > So you get kind of a function overloading > > Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:25 PM > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: RE: Java versus Python > > Hi Ken, > Are you talking about dictionaries or something else? I tried to google > this > and I'm unsure if I'm reading the right stuff. > > Thanks. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 12:27 PM > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: RE: Java versus Python > > This is not true with python and named variables. > > Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of black ares > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 12:21 PM > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: Java versus Python > > Another problem I've meet with weak typing is polymorphism. > If I want a behavior for a int value and other behavior for a string > value, > I can not write same method with diferent arguments and different > behaviors. > I am left only with the optionto write two different methods and to do > ugly > if else statements. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx> > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 2:51 PM > Subject: RE: Java versus Python > > >> There are two issues, just so we don't' conflate them. >> >> One is the issue of the grammar in question, and the second is the parser >> for this grammar. >> >> So, the grammar for java uses left/right brace for block level scoping, >> and the grammar for python uses indention level. >> >> Short humorous aside, everyone says indentation instead of indention, but >> isn't indentation what you actually do to someone's head >> in a fight, not to your code? Sorry, I love grammars, regardless of >> context, *smile*, pun intended. >> >> Ok, so if one were to simply say that missing a space is like forgetting >> a > >> brace, then, everything else being equal, it would be a >> similar error; however, it isn't exactly the same thing. Spacing for >> indention purposes happens on a line by line basis, as opposed >> to the one time operation that is putting, or not putting, an >> opening/closing brace. >> >> Also, forgetting a closing brace leaves a block of code open, and >> forgetting a space instead closes a block. >> >> Ok, so now if we have some code, if I forget a closing brace, that's not >> fun, but it's at least pretty easy to detect because >> chances are that I'll open a method declaration or do something else that >> doesn't happen inside of a block. >> >> If I forget a space, i simply close the block, so a bug can stay there >> forever, because all that's happened is that I've simply >> closed it one line too soon, or maybe a few lines too soon ... so that >> code still runs, but maybe just not on the conditional I >> want, or maybe it overrides a value. >> >> In other words, I'm putting forth that forgetting a closing brace is >> actually more destructive than forgetting a space, but because >> of this, the parser quickly ends up finding something that is an illegal >> syntax error or just something at the semantic level that >> doesn't make sense, and so there's a much higher chance of you finding >> out > >> about it before you ever come to run your program even >> once. >> >> That, I hope, addresses the issue of grammars. >> >> Now, moving onto parsers. >> >> The parser for Python, I feel, and this is subjective, doesn't give as >> good feedback to the programmer as the java one does. The >> reason for this really isn't the python guys' fault, at least not always, >> and that's because of a lack of typing. Because of this, >> sometimes error messages are perceived as vague and not useful. >> >> In java, alternatively, the compiler knows exactly what its expecting, >> what would even make the code syntactically correct, and so >> not only can it give you feedback along the lines of an argument being of >> a wrong type, but tell you what it was thinking should go >> there instead. >> >> Anyways, just some thoughts. >> >> >> Take care, >> Sina >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James >> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:25 AM >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: RE: Java versus Python >> >> Hi, >> What would Java have done in a case like this? According to me, this >> would > >> be a logic error whether or not it had anything to do >> with indentation. I would think that it would be very easy to miss a >> right > >> brace at the end of a code block. This would especially >> be true since Java allows you to have a single statement without using a >> right brace. It could be that I am missing something here >> in my thinking. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 12:22 AM >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: RE: Java versus Python >> >> This is true while I won't get into the what language is better since I >> write in too many in my job to even want to have an opinion people need >> to >> realize that miss placed spaces are nothing like context problems in >> other >> languages. If you miss place a block of spaced lines you don't just >> cause >> an error in the code. In fact the code might run along happily with no >> errors but the code won't do what you want. This is one of the down >> falls >> of python. There was actually a bug in the Icon and Braille+ that has >> been >> out for years that we only just recently found because of this very fact. >> One of the sighted guys that works on the project even missed it because >> the >> block of 10 lines of code just looked like it was supposed to be out >> there >> on its own. >> >> Ken >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John J. Boyer >> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 11:38 PM >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: Re: Java versus Python >> >> The mandatory indentation in Python means that a single misplaced >> whitespace >> can entirely destroy a program. This is not very robust. C programmers >> usually make sure their code is nicely indented by using a utility like >> the >> Gnu indent. I'm still looking for something similar for Java. Manual >> indentation is too error-prone. >> >> John >> >> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 08:32:55PM -0600, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >>> Java uses it's indentation much like braces are used. It's not where >>> things have to be in specific columns, but indentation sort of solves >>> a couple problems. >>> 1) It means that all blocks of code are denoted by a deeper >>> indentation level than the block that branched it. >>> 2) It also means that people usually stick to a nice style. I've seen >>> a lot of different code, for example: >>> while (bla) >>> do_something(); >>> while (bla) { >>> do_something >>> } >>> while (bla) >>> { >>> do_something(); >>> } >>> >>> Indentation can be a bit hard to get used to, but I personally like it >>> quite a lot. >>> On 6/17/2011 8:30 PM, John J. Boyer wrote: >>> >The thing I dislike about Python is mandatory indentation. This seems >>> >to me a throwback to the old days of assembly language and Cobol, >>> >where things had to be in certain columns. I like the free-form >>> >syntax of Java and C. >>> > >>> >John >>> > >>> >On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 07:15:55PM -0700, David Tseng wrote: >>> >>I personally find arguments about programming languages much >>> >>analogous to those seen in politics. Both sides have great points >>> >>but tend to drive one another towards opposite extremes. Some camps >>> >>are die hard dynamic language practitioners while others stick to >>> >>strongly typed code. >>> >> >>> >>I will say that strongly typed languages have kind of won the battle >>> >>historically. Most of the industry writes in C-styled languages >>> >>like C/C++, java, etc. Lisp, still beloved by many, kind of lost. >>> >>Python, as many have shown, works wonderfully and frees up coders to >>> >>actually code, is still largely a wrapper on C. For those who want >>> >>absolute performance, it's considered still an extra level of >>> >>indirection that's not worth the productivity gain. >>> >> >>> >>I love python and its free-form style and the amount of progress you >>> >>can make using it. Python excels at the rinse and repeat (compile, >>> >>run, fix) style of coding. The few seconds you need to compile a >>> >>C-styled language and run, you're already fixing the bug in python. >>> >>You're not babied into writing object-oriented code ala java, but >>> >>can independently mix in functional aspects if you wish. You can >>> >>just as easily go OO if you want as well. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>On 6/17/11, Alex Hall<mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>>Programming is certainly a matter of preference in most situations. >>> >>>I would probably give up if the only option were php, since I >>> >>>really hate that language (no offense to anyone). Java is easy >>> >>>enough, but I agree that it feels bulky at times. I like Python's >>> >>>ease of use and readability, plus you can create executables with >>> >>>it, something that is difficult in java. Some people don't like >>> >>>that python is loosely typed, but I prefer saying: >>> >>>name=raw_input("Enter your name: ") to, if memory serves: >>> >>>name=new String(); >>> >>>in=new InputReader(); >>> >>>name=in.readLine(); >>> >>>or something along those lines. >>> >>> >>> >>>On 6/17/11, Littlefield, Tyler<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>>>I've used both. I really like python because it comes on most *nix >>> >>>>systems. I also like Python because of it's flexability and >> versatility. >>> >>>>Java is nice enough, but it feels big bulky and clunky to me. That >>> >>>>and they seem to have some serious naming convention issues. >>> >>>>Sometimes things are capitalized, sometimes they're not--.net makes >> more sense. >>> >>>>On 6/17/2011 6:49 PM, John J. Boyer wrote: >>> >>>>>There has been a lot of discussion on the list lately about >>> >>>>>Python. Why is that?Personally i much prefer Java. Its syntx >>> >>>>>makes a lot more sense and it is just as powerful, if not more. A >>> >>>>>command-line build system like ant can take most of the hassle out >>> >>>>>of >> working with Java classes. >>> >>>>>personally, I prefer this to Eclipse. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>BrailleBlaster is written in Java. I am using openjdk-1.6, >>> >>>>>Eclipse SWT and Apache Ant. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>John >>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>>-- >>> >>>> >>> >>>>Take care, >>> >>>>Ty >>> >>>>my website: >>> >>>>http://tds-solutions.net >>> >>>>my blog: >>> >>>>http://tds-solutions.net/blog >>> >>>>skype: st8amnd127 >>> >>>>My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features! >>> >>>> >>> >>>>__________ >>> >>>>View the list's information and change your settings at >>> >>>>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>>Have a great day, >>> >>>Alex (msg sent from GMail website) >>> >>>mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap __________ View >>> >>>the list's information and change your settings at >>> >>>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>__________ >>> >>View the list's information and change your settings at >>> >>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> my website: >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> my blog: >>> http://tds-solutions.net/blog >>> skype: st8amnd127 >>> My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features! >>> >>> __________ >>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >> -- >> John J. 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