I know very well I'd probably be a more productive worker if I had a Braille display. They're just one of those pieces of technology so many blind folks could benefit from that's out of reach financially, more so than the speech-based alternatives. Too bad really. But I don't have much in the way of a solution, so I'll shut up now.
JW Chris Hofstader wrote:
The Braille display requirement is tough as they are pricey and many of us who lost our vision later in life struggle with the writing system and work very slowly as a result. I agree, however, that indentation is very helpful.cdhHappy Hacking, cdhChris Hofstaderemail: cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Blog: http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com Skype: BlindChristian-----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nick.Adamson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:35 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: Indentation Griping... Hi. I find that indentation actually helps. I am mostly a c++ developer but our companies coding standards (and nearly every other coding standard I've ever looked at) for c++ mandates an indentation style. With a Braille display and an editor that automatically does indentation as you type it's not unfriendly but actually makes code much easier to navigate. I used to program with out a Braille display and could never understand why any one would ever spend the huge amount of cache on one. That was until I worked at Dolphin and was convinced to try one by one of the other developers there. I now find it much harder to code with out one. I'm not even a particular fan of Braille, The only time I use it is when I'm giving a presentation and coding. The other reason that indentation is a good thing to learn to do automatically is that as I said before most coding standards require it and from a visual point of view for my sited peers it's the normal way to do things. Just my 2 pennies worth Cheers. Nick.-----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris Hofstader Sent: 08 December 2008 12:38 To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Indentation Griping... Way back when I was a college student, sort of the Paleolithic era, many languages, including Fortran, had rather precise indentation rules (even a variety of different CPU assembly languages) and many of these languages were very important in the job market. The most prolific (including Fortran) was COBOL which everyone hated but $75 p/h in 1979 made one hate it a lot less. I programmed in a language called Neat/3 which was sort of an assembly language with COBOL like extensions ($50 p/h) and we covered a bunch of other languages with really peculiar indentation rules in various classes at university. The worst thing I found back then about indentation rules (one could set tab stops which made things a lot easier) was that a label that one might want to jump to was constricted to a small number of alpha-numeric characters and usually a colon which made making code readable pretty difficult, especially as none of were too fond of comments back then because when using punch cards adding another to the stack increases probability of shuffling. I know COBOL has removed the requirement for indentation specifics in more recent versions but I haven't looked at Fortran in about a million years. I can't think of an assembly language I've programmed in since the late seventies that had indentation rules either. Your Virtual Grandpa,cdhHappy Hacking, cdhChris Hofstaderemail: cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Blog: http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com Skype: BlindChristian-----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:21 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: Python indentation? Other languages don't have this??? Have you used Fortran? And by the way you might think fortran is an old language. You would be wrong. Fortran is still a power house in Parallel programming they use it to update satellite operating systems and man if you think python is picky just code in fortran a while you have to have comments in one column and execution statements in another and variable definitions in yet another. There are other languages as well. Ken -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:27 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Python indentation? Well, I also think that the indentation is not exactly blind - friendly, but the others don't agree. I didn't say that this should be the reason for not using python becauseit is impossible to solve it, but just that it is something unfriendly thatother languages don't have. And I have also told about other things that I personally don't like,for example that python doesn't use braces, but this isn't somethingunfriendly, because there are programmers that like exactly this. It is just something I don't like. Octavian----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Hofstader" <cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:38 PM Subject: Python indentation?I haven't used Python yet but I expect that I will. I understand thatitslineindentation is significant to the meaning of the code on any givenbut don't decent text editors keep one's indentation properly aligned?Addingaudio to describe the indentation of any given line is simple and, of course, we all can use Jamal's editor to use braces while we type andmakethem go away to compile properly. I don't know why people choose Python over any other language as Ihavespent nearly zero time exploring it but, while indentation rulesaren'texactly blind friendly, I can't see it as a showstopper. cdh Happy Hacking, cdh Chris Hofstader email: cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Blog: http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com Skype: BlindChristian -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian RasnitaSent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 12:15 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included A whole month?! It is much too much. One day would be enough, but I don't think I willafterstart to like python's indentation in a single day, and probably not evena month. Oh, or if you will say that you don't like it but you just get used tousechooseit, then it is not enough. For the moment I can choose the language I need to use and I canonly what I personally like, no matter what others say. If I will see that I could be a part of a team that use python and Icouldearn much enough to make the necessary effort of getting used to useit,then I will probably start using it, but even in that case I don'tthink Iwill say that python indentation is friendly for the blind. How friendly could it be if it requires a month to get used to use it? Octavian----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:02 PM Subject: RE: Creating an Operating System with speech includedI took 1 month to get so used to the indentation I don't even thinkof itand I did not start with Python as I have previously said so yourjustarguing to argue here. Ken -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:38 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signaturedatabase 3668 (20081206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signaturedatabase 3668 (20081206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signaturedatabase 3668 (20081206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3668 (20081206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3668 (20081206) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com__________View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblindThis email and any files attached are intended for the addressee and may contain information of a confidential nature. 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