Hi James. Yes, it was definitely a learning process and we got better at it as we gained experience. On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Homme, James <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote: > Hi Jacques, > > It sounds like you would want to make sure that you ask the right questions > and know that they are answered properly. I say that without having a clue > about how you interviewed your candidates. > > > > Jim > > > > Jim Homme, > > Usability Services, > > Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme > > Internal recipients, Read my accessibility > blog<http://mysites.highmark.com/personal/lidikki/Blog/default.aspx>. > Discuss accessibility > here<http://collaborate.highmark.com/COP/technical/accessibility/default.aspx>. > Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility > advice<http://collaborate.highmark.com/COP/technical/accessibility/Accessibility%20Wiki/Forms/AllPages.aspx> > > > > *From:* programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto: > programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Jacques Bosch > *Sent:* Thursday, February 17, 2011 1:01 AM > *To:* programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > *Subject:* Re: Getting started learning VB6 > > > > Hi Rick. > > To be fair you have to give the guy without the degree 4 years of > experience. <smile> > I think you guys are hearing what I am not saying. I can't even remember > how we got hear any more. I am not promoting the idea of not aspiring to a > formal education. I am just saying that it is possible the other way also, > and a lot of passion and hard work. > In the end of the day it comes down to whether somebody can get the job > done, get it done in the right way for any given environment. And yes, > universities can give you a good push in the right direction, however, it > boils right down to the individual in the end. > > Something interesting that I experienced in the software company where I > was part owner; > Over a period of 2 years we had to fill several positions. We must have > interviewed about 30 candidates in total. What really got to us where these > people fresh out of university with their degrees that thought they were the > big answer, and then they totally and utterly crash in the practical test > which was a very simple program. They had to write a console application in > their language of choice, when given a root folder, to list the nested > folder structure below it. We did not tell them to use recursion. (Wait, > eventually we did start telling them after they made no headway, but it > didn't help any). > Before we realized the power of the practical test to separate those who > had a clue from those who did not, we appointed 2 guys with formal degrees > from respected universities. The one guy had a good attitude, but was > virtually useless in terms of any productivity for the next 18 months > because he had to learn how things worked in the real world. The other guys > was an absolute disaster. He actually had the degree and several years > experience, and was extremely smooth and knowledgeable sounding in the > interview, and was appointed as a senior developer, but was the worst thing > we ever did in the company. He was clueless, had a bad attitude, but > expected all the dues of a "senior" position. > There were two other guys, that did not have a degree. The 1 had a 1 year > diploma, and the other had nothing. These were the two that really shined, > and besides me and my partner, they made the company work. They were the > "junior" developers, but blew the other two out of the water. They ended up > doing / redoing the "senior" guys work. > > Again, this is just experience and not an argument against getting a formal > education. But if I ever hire again, I will make damn sure that I am not > conned by the implied competence of a degree, but that the person really > does know the first thing about software engineering in the real world. > I'd rather take somebody that has the aptitude, and good attitude, without > the degree, and mentor them on the job, than somebody who has a degree, and > think they know everything, and have to teach them just as much. > All other things being equal though, I would take the person with the > degree. <smile> > > Jacques > > On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:51 AM, The Elf <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > > *sigh* > > I disagree with your assessment of visual ability and past capabilities and > choice of GUI or console programming. > > also that is not the only place and way to learn, I have some resources and > a site that it's original use was for blind programmers, Jamal Mazrui has a > site devoted to this topic, etc. > > my sight is the grab bag site listed under my name below, and Jamal's is: > www.NonvisualDevelopment.org > > I do grant that you should go to VB.net or better C#.net so your starting > out in a current language, and either the vb.net 2008 will work good, and > I hear that 2010 does work with a few more difficulties. > > HTH, > > > elf > Moderator, Blind Access Help > Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises > Specialists in customized computers and peripherals > - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn! > www.alacorncomputer.com > proprietor, The Grab Bag, > for blind computer users and programmers > http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, > 26" <jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx> > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 8:31 AM > > > Subject: RE: Getting started learning VB6 > > > There may not be enough money to use and learn dot net. Fortunately, > mono can be installed and will run on Windows as well as Linux and the > price tag is $0.00. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of DaShiell, > Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26 > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:28 > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: RE: Getting started learning VB6 > > No, not without knowing your visual status. If you have memory of > having had vision or better yet have a little useable vision your best > bet would be to learn the language with windows forms. If you have no > memory of vision, then your best bet would be to learn the language > using the console interface, and these are two completely different > paths. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Otis D Blue > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:22 > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Getting started learning VB6 > > Hi, > > Could someone suggest where I can go to learn how to use VB as a > beginner? > I would like to get the understanding of the language and how to create > software with it. > > Otis Blue > > Join Blind-entrepreneurs by subscribing at > blind-entrepreneurs-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Rules for the list is simple. > Be respectful to everyone and no fial language. It's ok to post useful > information to the list that will benefit other users. The list is > mainly > for discussion of business and owning a business. Everyone is welcome > to > join and learn about opening a business. Accessible software that's > been > developed by yourself or something you had made can be sold on the list > if > it's going to benefit other business owners. Other than that, Thanks > for > joining the Blind-Entrepreneurs group. > > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > > > > -- > > Jacques Bosch > > Software Architecture and Development > Independent Contractor > Cell: +27 824711807 Fax: +27 86 504 4726 > E-Mail: jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx > > ------------------------------ > This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and are intended > solely for use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If > you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately > and then delete it. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not > keep, use, disclose, copy or distribute this e-mail without the author's > prior permission. The views expressed in this e-mail message do not > necessarily represent the views of Highmark Inc., its subsidiaries, or > affiliates. > -- Jacques Bosch Software Architecture and Development Independent Contractor Cell: +27 824711807 Fax: +27 86 504 4726 E-Mail: jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx