Re: Getting started learning VB6

From: Jacques Bosch <jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx>
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:00:32 +0200
We are in South Africa.
ITC or ICT: Information Technology and Communications
LLB: Bachelor of Laws: a three-year law degree


On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 1:45 PM, RicksPlace <ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hi Guys: OK, from this I get it I am talking to guys from across the pond.
> Good! One of the smartest fellows I ever read was from over there. A fellow
> named Will Pearson was on list a number of years ago and has since moved on
> into advanced Grad Work and likely is already done with his PHD and working
> in his love, Artificial Intelligence of sorts. Things may be quite diferent
> over there. The job environment, the politics and the support for blind job
> seekers might be very diferent. Over here things are as I describe. The
> environment is very competitive, you really need a degree to break into the
> field at any major company and the pay rates are much higher than in most
> other countries so we get competition from them as well as from our own
> University Grads who are coming out of school every year looking for entry
> level positions in the field which pays very well. Our major companies are
> farming out as many Computer Related jobs as they can overseas, bringing in
> folks from other countries who will work for less money as fast as they can
> and,as I mentioned, the pool of American Trained University Grads is
> continually pumping out Undergrads and Grad students looking to get their
> foot in the door and willing to do whatever it takes to get that job. This
> is not an environment for someone who is a fairly intelligent individual to
> pick up a pc after high school and consider swimming with the big fish. As
> for your prior post what is ITC and LLB? I never heard of them. Perhaps they
> are Technical acronyms I am not familiar with. Anyway, if you guys have delt
> with accessibility issues over there you know your environment better than I
> do. Let's make sure we aren't trying to mix apples and oranges as the saying
> goes. That means we aren't trying to make a definitive statement of
> generalization when the environment may be quite diferent in our 2
> countries.
> If things are better over there then that would be a good thing to know for
> blind programmers over here since they may want to relocate to take
> advantage of better opportunities over there or vise versa.
> Later and good to hear from you guys across the pond again. I am guessing
> you are Brits from the sounds of your locations,. Is that the case?
> Later and great to hear from you!
> Rick USA
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johannes Grib" <johannesg@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 1:23 AM
>
> Subject: RE: Getting started learning VB6
>
>
> All,
> Interesting to see how every one "AsUMe" a formal education is in an ICT
> disiplin.
> I personally know people with LLB's who are now working as senior
> developers.
>
> I would not want to be with out the tools I got from my univercity
> training, helps a lot with the analitics especially when complexity steps
> in.
>
> Just a little perspective some times goes a long way.
>
> Steven Covey's "paradyme shift concept" tought me to ask questions before
> my mouth gets me in trouble.
>
> Jacques, perhaps for the people who do not know you, you might want to tell
> them what you did at the univercity of Pretoria when I visited you to help
> with your assistive technology.
>
>
> Kindest
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
> programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jacques Bosch
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:01
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Getting started learning VB6
>
> Hi Rick.
>
> To be fair you have to give the guy without the degree 4 years of
> experience. <smile> I think you guys are hearing what I am not saying. I
> can't even remember how we got hear any more. I am not promoting the idea of
> not aspiring to a formal education. I am just saying that it is possible the
> other way also, and a lot of passion and hard work.
> In the end of the day it comes down to whether somebody can get the job
> done, get it done in the right way for any given environment. And yes,
> universities can give you a good push in the right direction, however, it
> boils right down to the individual in the end.
>
> Something interesting that I experienced in the software company where I
> was part owner; Over a period of 2 years we had to fill several positions.
> We must have interviewed about 30 candidates in total. What really got to us
> where these people fresh out of university with their degrees that thought
> they were the big answer, and then they totally and utterly crash in the
> practical test which was a very simple program. They had to write a console
> application in their language of choice, when given a root folder, to list
> the nested folder structure below it. We did not tell them to use recursion.
> (Wait, eventually we did start telling them after they made no headway, but
> it didn't help any).
> Before we realized the power of the practical test to separate those who
> had a clue from those who did not, we appointed 2 guys with formal degrees
> from respected universities. The one guy had a good attitude, but was
> virtually useless in terms of any productivity for the next 18 months
> because he had to learn how things worked in the real world. The other guys
> was an absolute disaster. He actually had the degree and several years
> experience, and was extremely smooth and knowledgeable sounding in the
> interview, and was appointed as a senior developer, but was the worst thing
> we ever did in the company. He was clueless, had a bad attitude, but
> expected all the dues of a "senior" position.
> There were two other guys, that did not have a degree. The 1 had a 1 year
> diploma, and the other had nothing. These were the two that really shined,
> and besides me and my partner, they made the company work. They were the
> "junior" developers, but blew the other two out of the water. They ended up
> doing / redoing the "senior" guys work.
>
> Again, this is just experience and not an argument against getting a formal
> education. But if I ever hire again, I will make damn sure that I am not
> conned by the implied competence of a degree, but that the person really
> does know the first thing about software engineering in the real world.
> I'd rather take somebody that has the aptitude, and good attitude, without
> the degree, and mentor them on the job, than somebody who has a degree, and
> think they know everything, and have to teach them just as much.
> All other things being equal though, I would take the person with the
> degree. <smile>
>
> Jacques
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:51 AM, The Elf <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
>
> *sigh*
>
> I disagree with your assessment of visual ability and past capabilities and
> choice of GUI or console programming.
>
> also that is not the only place and way to learn, I have some resources and
> a site that it's original use was for blind programmers, Jamal Mazrui has a
> site devoted to this topic, etc.
>
> my sight is the grab bag site listed under my name below, and Jamal's is:
> www.NonvisualDevelopment.org
>
> I do grant that you should go to VB.net or better C#.net so your starting
> out in a current language, and either the vb.net 2008 will work good, and
> I hear that 2010 does work with a few more difficulties.
>
> HTH,
>
> elf
> Moderator, Blind Access Help
> Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
> Specialists in customized computers and peripherals
> - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!
> www.alacorncomputer.com
> proprietor, The Grab Bag,
> for blind computer users and programmers
> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1,
> 26" <jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 8:31 AM
>
> Subject: RE: Getting started learning VB6
>
>
> There may not be enough money to use and learn dot net.  Fortunately,
> mono can be installed and will run on Windows as well as Linux and the
> price tag is $0.00.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of DaShiell,
> Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26
> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:28
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Getting started learning VB6
>
> No, not without knowing your visual status.  If you have memory of
> having had vision or better yet have a little useable vision your best
> bet would be to learn the language with windows forms.  If you have no
> memory of vision, then your best bet would be to learn the language
> using the console interface, and these are two completely different
> paths.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Otis D Blue
> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:22
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Getting started learning VB6
>
> Hi,
>
> Could someone suggest where I can go to learn how to use VB as a
> beginner?
> I would like to get the understanding of the language and how to create
> software with it.
>
> Otis Blue
>
> Join Blind-entrepreneurs by subscribing at
> blind-entrepreneurs-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Rules for the list is simple.
> Be respectful to everyone and no fial language.  It's ok to post useful
> information to the list that will benefit other users.  The list is
> mainly
> for discussion of business and owning a business.  Everyone is welcome
> to
> join and learn about opening a business.  Accessible software that's
> been
> developed by yourself or something you had made can be sold on the list
> if
> it's going to benefit other business owners.  Other than that, Thanks
> for
> joining the Blind-Entrepreneurs group.
>
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jacques Bosch
>
> Software Architecture and Development
> Independent Contractor
> Cell: +27 824711807 Fax: +27 86 504 4726
> E-Mail: jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx
>
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
>


-- 

Jacques Bosch

Software Architecture and Development
Independent Contractor
Cell: +27 824711807 Fax: +27 86 504 4726
E-Mail: jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx
References:
- RE: Getting started learning VB6
  - From: Johannes Grib
- Re: Getting started learning VB6
  - From: RicksPlace
Re: Getting started learning VB6

Other related posts:
