Re: Fruitbasket in Perl and Win32::GUI, OO Style

  • From: Jamal Mazrui <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:10:37 -0400 (EDT)

I don't think ASP.NET is a different language.  It is a set of classes
that any .NET language can use.
Jamal
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007, inthaneelf wrote:

> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:04:05 -0700
> From: inthaneelf <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Fruitbasket in Perl and Win32::GUI, OO Style
>
> Jamal,
>
> I wasn't saying that asp.net was an extra component of VB and C#, what I
> meant is exactly the opposite,  that it is a language unto itself, and
> though VB and C# can be deployed through it on a web site, or with it,
> depending on your view, a site using .net is built with asp.net and the
> others deploy through it, or as far as my understanding of such things
> stands.
>
> I have a invisible set of links and header for projects in asp, and asp.net
> on my page, just awaiting someone to do up projects in them.
>
> and yes I know that asp and asp.net are very different animals, smile.
>
> inthane
> . For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and Links
> to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
> . to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming
> languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
> http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 7:47 AM
> Subject: Re: Fruitbasket in Perl and Win32::GUI, OO Style
>
>
> FYI -- ASP.NET is a subset of the .NET Framework Class Library, so it is
> not really an extra component for VBNeT or C# coding.  I think most
> languages use specialized libraries for server-side programming, besides
> PHP, so whether a language uses a particular library should not affect
> its categorization, particularly if that library is freely available.
>
> Although it is tempting to try to summarize and categorize each language
> objectively, I think the most practical approach is probably just using
> the initial paragraph used by that language's web site for the
> description.  Naturally, that wording would be somewhat promotional in
> nature, but it generally emphasizes what distinguishes that language from
> others, offering reasons why someone should try it against competing
> choices.  Such language could be quoted and a link included to the main
> language site so it is clear that this is the source of information about
> the language.  The sample programs would then provide tangible
> illustrations of what the languages can do, so people can better judge
> based on programs they can actually experience in source code and
> executable form.
>
> Jamal
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007, inthaneelf wrote:
>
> > Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 15:24:36 -0700
> > From: inthaneelf <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: Fruitbasket in Perl and Win32::GUI, OO Style
> >
> > there is a module for creating desktop applications with php, but the
> > module
> > is not accessible, so this is a problem with my having a application made
> > in
> > it on the site.
> >
> > and I think a compromise is due here!
> >
> > I can go through and if I do not have an example for it in both, then I
> > can
> > at least put a simple, marking of some sort, an alert so to say that the
> > language is used in both.
> >
> > and the point that while as Jamal said, vb.net and c# can be used to make
> > stuff for asp.net, you still need asp.net to utilize them, so that one is
> > a
> > combo, hmmmm, I can make a template like the one that is on the page now,
> > made invisible in html code, that has the format of a "used in both web
> > and
> > desktop programming" and have a space for additional notes there, this way
> > the primary distinction is there, but the notes and additional uses are
> > with
> > each language as well,.
> >
> > respects,
> > inthane
> > . For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and
> > Links
> > to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
> > http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
> > . to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming
> > languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
> > http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: Fruitbasket in Perl and Win32::GUI, OO Style
> >
> >
> > > Ok, but in that case it should be made no distinction at all, it should
> > > be
> > > created a single section, and eventually specify for each program if it
> > > is
> > > one for the desktop or one for the web.
> > >
> > > Otherwise, some programs won't be found because they are for the
> > > desktop,
> > > but they are stored in the section with the programs for the web.
> > >
> > > But I still think that a distinction should be made, because the users
> > > should see that a certain language is better for the desktop or for the
> > > web if there are more programs for that environment, and they should see
> > > that a certain language is not very much used for creating applications
> > > for a certain environment, like VB.net for the web for example.
> > >
> > > I think C++ could also print something to STDOUT, so it could be used
> > > for
> > > creating programs for the web, and possibly assembly also. Maybe Visual
> > > Basic 6 can't be used normally.
> > > I heard that there is a project began that should allow to create
> > > programs
> > > for the desktop with PHP also. But... how many programs for the desktop
> > > are made (if there are) with PHP, and how many programs are made with
> > > VB.net?
> > >
> > > The users should see how easy is to code in a certain language, and also
> > > find out if that language is used by many programmers.
> > >
> > > That's why I said some time ago that anyone should come and create his
> > > own
> > > version of this program, no matter if there are other versions made in a
> > > certain language.
> > >
> > > Octavian
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 1:52 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Fruitbasket in Perl and Win32::GUI, OO Style
> > >
> > >
> > > I also appreciate Inthane's work on this, and suggest that the
> > > distinction between desktop and web languages is not sufficiently
> > > meaningful to be worth doing.  Besides C++ and Assembler for the desktop
> > > and PHP and JavaScript for the web, almost every other language is now
> > > commonly used for both desktop and web programs.  VBNET and C#, for
> > > example, are used to make web sites built with the ASP.NET classes.   I
> > > think the intent of the distinction was good, but in practical terms, it
> > > is no longer a useful, top-level categorization in the project.
> > >
> > > Just my opinion after some reflection on this issue.
> > > Jamal
> > > On Sat, 13
> > > Oct 2007, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > >
> > >> Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 18:45:35 +0300
> > >> From: Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >> Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> Subject: Re: Fruitbasket in Perl and Win32::GUI, OO Style
> > >>
> > >> I don't think you need to make 3 sections. You just need to make only
> > >> 2.
> > >>
> > >> Thinking from the point of view of the beginner programmer that wants
> > >> to
> > >> start learning a new language, I think that he or she might intend to
> > >> create
> > >> a certain kind of program.
> > >> Maybe the programmer doesn't know yet which would be the best language,
> > >> but
> > >> he or she knows for sure that wants to create a desktop program or a
> > >> program
> > >> for the web, so he will look in the section of sample programs for
> > >> desktop
> > >> or for the web.
> > >>
> > >> If I'd be in his place, I wouldn't choose a language that is not for
> > >> the
> > >> desktop and not for the web, but that can do both, because I wouldn't
> > >> know
> > >> if I'll find samples for what I need in that third section.
> > >>
> > >> So, let's say I want to create a desktop program. Well, I'd look in the
> > >> section of the languages that can be used for creating desktop
> > >> programs.
> > >> But I wouldn't find perl there and this is not good.
> > >>
> > >> If you'll create a third section and I would want to make a program for
> > >> the
> > >> web, then maybe I will look in the Ruby example because I would see
> > >> that
> > >> it
> > >> is for desktop and for the web, but I won't find a version for the web
> > >> there, so I won't trust that section anymore, so I'd look only in the
> > >> sections that clearly say that are only for the web or only for
> > >> desktop.
> > >>
> > >> The fact that you added a word "mostly" in the explanation is absolutly
> > >> not
> > >> important because nobody would know what he would be able to find in
> > >> that
> > >> section.
> > >>
> > >> I have seen that you organized the programming languages, but I don't
> > >> think
> > >> they are important here. The most important things are the sample
> > >> programs,
> > >> no matter the programming language.
> > >> If a beginner programmer will see and like the code of a certain
> > >> program,
> > >> he
> > >> might want to learn the language that program is made in, no matter
> > >> which
> > >> is
> > >> it, but this only if that program does what he wants.
> > >>
> > >> So the explanation of what the languages are good for is good, but
> > >> should
> > >> be
> > >> accessible only after the code of the program.
> > >>
> > >> But anyway, you put some work in this site and we should thank you for
> > >> this.
> > >>
> > >> Even though I think it could be better, I can't recommend to make the
> > >> effort
> > >> and improve it, because.... (but this is just my opinion), I think that
> > >> it
> > >> not very helpful at all... for the moment.
> > >>
> > >> (Not because it is bad or less good, but because maybe the beginner
> > >> programmers start learning in a different way... who knows).
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Octavian
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "inthaneelf" <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 5:12 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: Fruitbasket in Perl and Win32::GUI, OO Style
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Octavian, this is why the header for the sections both say "mostly"
> > >> > this
> > >> > means that many of the languages can be used for both
> > >> >
> > >> > I did not wish to have to make three distinct sections,  its
> > >> > confusing
> > >> > enough, but I'll consider doing so.
> > >> >
> > >> > there, also, is  a definition file for each language, which would
> > >> > talk
> > >> > about this point as well.
> > >> >
> > >> > thanks again,
> > >> > inthane
> > >> > . For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and
> > >> > Links to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications,
> > >> > visit
> > >> > me
> > >> > at:
> > >> > http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
> > >> > . to be able to view a simple programming project in several
> > >> > programming
> > >> > languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
> > >> > http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
> > >> >
> > >> > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >> > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >> > Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 1:35 AM
> > >> > Subject: Re: Fruitbasket in Perl and Win32::GUI, OO Style
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >> Sorry but I think I didn't understand the question. I don't
> > >> >> understand
> > >> >> what you mean by "idiomatic".
> > >> >>
> > >> >> And yes, I remember that the FruitBasket in Perl with Win32::GUI was
> > >> >> put
> > >> >> in the section of languages for the web, which is not correct, and I
> > >> >> already told that.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> FruitBasket versions in perl using Win32::GUI and WXPerl should be
> > >> >> put
> > >> >> in
> > >> >> the section of languages for desktop programs, because in those
> > >> >> programs
> > >> >> perl is used as a desktop program, and FruitBasket made as a CGI
> > >> >> program
> > >> >> should be put in the section of languages for the web, because that
> > >> >> program is one for the web, just like the one made in Javascript.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> And one more thing, it is important to let the users know that perl
> > >> >> can
> > >> >> be used as a language for desktop programs and as a language for the
> > >> >> web
> > >> >> programs, while other languages cannot, or at least for the moment
> > >> >> there
> > >> >> are no FruitBasket demos made in those languages.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Octavian
> > >> >>
> > >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> >> From: "Veli-Pekka Tätilä" <vtatila@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >> >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >> >> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 12:19 AM
> > >> >> Subject: Re: Fruitbasket in Perl and Win32::GUI, OO Style
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>> Hi Octavian,
> > >> >>> About the Win32::GUi version of Fruit Basket in Perl.
> > >> >>> Or maybe I simply missed it, since I only looked at the link names
> > >> >>> and
> > >> >>> read the info blurb mentioning Perl being a server side lang. How
> > >> >>> idiomatic code is that, by the way?
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> I have a bad, in terms of maintenance, habit of trying to code as
> > >> >>> Perlishly and concisely I can. So one thing I've gottten lately
> > >> >>> into
> > >> >>> OO
> > >> >>> Perl are initializing the fields of an object by assigning to a
> > >> >>> hash
> > >> >>> slice. Like this (untested):
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> @$object{qw|field1 field2|} = (3.14, 42); # whatever.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> In stead of using up two precious statements and the deref arrow.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> --
> > >> >>> With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
> > >> >>> Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming:
> > >> >>> http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > >> >>>> I sent a version made with Win32::GUI in perl, and one in perl as
> > >> >>>> a
> > >> >>>> server
> > >> >>>> side language, but maybe they are lost...
> > >> >>> __________
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