RE: Fruit basket program alternatives for Learnability

  • From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:44:06 -0700


Agree here.  Again that was the point of the Fruit basket to be of help to
blind people in deciding what the best method would be to make a GUI.  For
example do you want to have to define the positions of controls or use
something more simple like Java flow control or .net flow controls.



Ken 

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 8:17 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Fruit basket program alternatives for Learnability

Hi,
My two cents worth about this is that we shouldn't reinvent the wheel by
writing a bunch of programming tutorials when there are plenty of good ones
out there. I feel that the only kinds of programming tutorials we should
write would be those that have an assistive technology slant. Let the rest
of the web write the other stuff.

Thanks.

Jim

James D Homme, , Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc.,
james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810

"It's more important for me to start to do the right thing than it is to
wait until I think I can do it just right."




                                                                           
             "Veli-Pekka                                                   
             Tätilä"                                                       
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Hi Ken,
Good point about Lua et al not being very good Fruit Basket langs since
native GUis are harder to build. Which reminds me, as it stands now, the
Fruit Basket is more an Exercise in GUi layout and basic controls rather
than showing off a particular programming language, just as you said below.
Especially in libs whose list boxes maintain the strings directly, you don't
necessarily demonstrate any kind of array or hash usage, text processing,
functional programming constructs or closures all of which are common
elements in the dynamically typed scripting languages, for instance.

So could a more involved, and possibly less graphical, version of the Fruit
Basket be developed which is more akin to language comparisons?
What if there's already a C version of WIn32, should there also be a C
version of GTK+ 2, for instance, since it is a different lib with C
bindings?

Hello Worlds as in Wikipedia don't tell much about a language:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/List_of_hello_world_programs

However, I saw a benchmark which tries to demonstrate that with just in time
compiling and dynamic optimizations Java doesn't lose much at all to C,
contrary to popular belief. Not sure how feasible the results are
but:

http://www.osnews.com/story.php/5602/Nine-Language-Performance-Round-up-Benc
hmarking-Math-and-File-IO//page1


Another interesting thing about that benchmark is the code. IT shows you
basic arithmetic using integer and floating point types, file reading and
writing and measuring the execution times of code. This can be a good intro
to the field of the language i.e. basic data types, control structures, file
I/O etc... which are things almost everyone wants to do sooner or later.

Another set of language benchmarks would be this one, though not sure how
the code is from a learnability point of view:

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/

--
With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming:
http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila

Ken Perry wrote:
> The problem with Haskell, LUA, and Objective Caml which are all 
> languages
I
> have thought of doing one in are they do not have an easy way to 
> access
the
> Win32 environment or some way to create a dialog type application.  I
keep
> them on the list of programs I will write one in but haven't got 
> around
to
> it because it is almost as much work as the one I wrote in LISP.  If
someone
> writes them first more power to them but what essentially these will 
> end
up
> being is direct calls to Win32 and a bit of the   programming languages
> structure and syntax.
>
> When I came up with the Fruit Basket idea I didn't think of this kind 
> of language maybe we should come up with another test program that 
> instead
of
> displaying a graphical interface does a lot of work like looping, 
> conditionals, functions or methods,  Not really to do anything 
> important
but
> to show what the language is like when using it.
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