Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting Introduction
- From: "Jackie McBride" <abletec@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:46:19 -0700
So what I wanna know is, who the firetruck is this legendary Fritz, Anyway?
On 4/13/08, Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Yes, of course I am lazy. So? Is this a problem? :-)
>
> I don't think I can build a software synthesizer at least as good as US
> Eloquence by just reading the documentation and making research, without
> knowing C/C++.
>
> There are more romanian synthesizers, but I don't like any of them, and they
> all are made by software companies that have more good programmers.
> One of them sounds pretty good but is very slow responsive, another one
> sounds like a robot and it doesn't work at a higher rate, another one sounds
> very very bad (the one which is made by the german company Baum, that
> company that made Gnopernicus screen reader for Linux, and Virgo screen
> reader for Windows).
>
> Even if I would know C/C++, I don't think that it would be easy enough to
> create a better synthesizer than US Eloquence.
> And by the way, where can we find documentation about how to create a
> synthesizer at least as good and fast as Eloquence?
> I am asking this, because you seem to be very well informed...
>
>
>
>
> Octavian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mario Percinic" <mario.percinic@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting
> Introduction
>
>
> > No i'm not joking, i told you what to do, and i gave you possible
> > solutions how you could improve Romanian speech synth. In order to improve
> > it, you don't need to know c plus plus, you need to research the topic and
> > read the documentation but again, you just showed that you are lazy, and
> > that you like to make conclusions before you properly research the topic
> > of the discussion. Well ... your choyce. Use eloquence, and jfw 6, but
> > don't rumble that this or that doesn't work. If that's the case why don't
> > you go to windows 3.1 and jaws 1.0?
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 5:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting
> > Introduction
> >
> >
> >> Are you kidding, right?
> >>
> >> I don't like some simple things like some chars that don't sound well in
> >> Eloquence, and you give a wonderful suggestion of learning C++ and start
> >> improving a romanian synthesizer. Do you think that thing is so simple?
> >>
> >> The US English synthesizer is the only synthesizer I really like. I don't
> >> like even the UK English synthesizer, and it was created by many people
> >> and improved in many years. Do you think it is so simple to create
> >> another one very easy?
> >> What's wrong complaining when a good software is now not as good as it
> >> was before?
> >>
> >> I didn't asked for anything, but I just shown why I don't use the newer
> >> versions of Jaws.
> >>
> >> Octavian
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Mario Percinic" <mario.percinic@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 5:38 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting
> >> Introduction
> >>
> >>
> >>> Well, i gave you the possible solutions, and i told you to get in the
> >>> development and improvement of espeak for Romanian. By saying, it sounds
> >>> bad, you don't do anything except complaining.
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 3:41 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting
> >>> Introduction
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I have tried espeak, but it sounds pretty bad.
> >>>> The romanian sinth of MBrola also sounds badly.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't think it is a problem of Eloquence with my settings, because
> >>>> the same Eloquence works very well in Jaws 6, but it doesn't work well
> >>>> with Jaws 7.
> >>>>
> >>>> The letter t is very closed to the letter t, as well as the letter s
> >>>> looks very closed to s, so FS prefered to make those letters sound nice
> >>>> for the ears of those who are not so interested in the advanced details
> >>>> like the ANSI code of the chars.
> >>>>
> >>>> When I just read the text, it is also ok for me, but not when I am
> >>>> correcting the text.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Octavian
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Mario Percinic" <mario.percinic@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 7:54 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting
> >>>> Introduction
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> No, the problem is not because you read romanian texts with english
> >>>>> eloquence. The point is that each synth language is relating to its
> >>>>> registry values so that it knows how to read all the characters
> >>>>> correctly. That's why i was suggesting to you to use some other synth
> >>>>> for romanian. I don't know if you have some software synths or you
> >>>>> don't. however if you don't have it or you are not satisfied i would
> >>>>> recommend to you to try espeak which has support for romanian which
> >>>>> could be improved since its an open source product, has Sapi5 support
> >>>>> and after eloquence i found it the most responsive. I was developing
> >>>>> espeak for Croatian language and for the last year that's the only
> >>>>> synth i use exept eloquence on all of the systems where i work. It is
> >>>>> very configurable , and with different voice variants you can make it
> >>>>> to sound how you want. Since i used dolphin synths allot i made voice
> >>>>> variant which sounds very similar to dolphin appollo or orpheus.
> >>>>> However if you don't like its voice you can use it as a frontent for
> >>>>> Mbrola and i know that there is mbrola for Romanian
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 12:37 PM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting
> >>>>> Introduction
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>I am using Jaws with Eloquence, the default sinthesizer of Jaws.
> >>>>>> I don't think it should be a problem that I am reading texts in
> >>>>>> romanian language with an english sinthesizer.
> >>>>>> The sinthesizer shouldn't read 2 different chars in the same way
> >>>>>> without offering a possibility of reading them as it used to read
> >>>>>> them before (differently).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Octavian
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: "Mario Percinic" <mario.percinic@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:55 AM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting
> >>>>>> Introduction
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well that could be the case with synth you are using, and not with
> >>>>>>> jaws. Speech synth also has to know how to read surtain characters
> >>>>>>> in order to read it properly, screen reader is not the only case.
> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>> From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:59 PM
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting
> >>>>>>> Introduction
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Well, I can say that I am afraid exactly of Unicode.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This is the reason I am still using Jaws 6. Since Jaws 7, Jaws has
> >>>>>>>> Unicode features, but since then it doesn't read the special chars
> >>>>>>>> as in Jaws 6 or below.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> For example, in Jaws 6, it reads the letter t as thorn, s as
> >>>>>>>> degrees, a as ei tilda, and other few special chars, but starting
> >>>>>>>> with Jaws 7, for t it reads t, for s it reads s, for a it reads a,
> >>>>>>>> so I don't know where there is a t or a simple t, a s or a simple
> >>>>>>>> s, an a or a simple a.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I can make some settings in Jaws to read them correctly when they
> >>>>>>>> are read as separate letters, but when they are read in words,
> >>>>>>>> those words don't sound like before, and I don't like that.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Octavian
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>> From: "Mario Percinic" <mario.percinic@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 4:55 PM
> >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes
> >>>>>>>> Scripting Introduction
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Octavian, windoweyes 7 will have full unicode support which wasn't
> >>>>>>>>> the case
> >>>>>>>>> with previous versions, so you don't have to be afraid, it will
> >>>>>>>>> support lots
> >>>>>>>>> of languages and synths for them, including braille support.
> >>>>>>>>> What i can tell you also from my personal expirience is that since
> >>>>>>>>> version
> >>>>>>>>> 5.5 of windoweyes its possible to have both jaws and windoweyes on
> >>>>>>>>> the same
> >>>>>>>>> machine.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> >>>>>>>>> Octavian Rasnita
> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 2:07 PM
> >>>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes
> >>>>>>>>> Scripting
> >>>>>>>>> Introduction
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> This is great!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The fact that Window Eyes supports scripting, and not just a
> >>>>>>>>> single
> >>>>>>>>> proprietary scripting language not very well documented, but any
> >>>>>>>>> language
> >>>>>>>>> that supports com automation, and if I also add the fact that
> >>>>>>>>> Window Eyes
> >>>>>>>>> can be set to use the same keyboard layout as Jaws, I think that
> >>>>>>>>> even if it
> >>>>>>>>> is not the best screen reader yet, it will surely be very soon.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I have used Window Eyes a long time ago, but I didn't like its
> >>>>>>>>> keyboard
> >>>>>>>>> layout, and I heard that it is also not very friendly with some
> >>>>>>>>> apps I use.
> >>>>>>>>> Now I think the engineers from GW Micro will be able to make
> >>>>>>>>> easier scripts
> >>>>>>>>> for those applications (like Office, VS.net...), so I don't think
> >>>>>>>>> Jaws has
> >>>>>>>>> many advantages... at least from what I heard. (I hope I won't
> >>>>>>>>> have a
> >>>>>>>>> different opinion after trying the latest Window Eyes).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> As a marketing tip, I think GW Micro could make a special offer to
> >>>>>>>>> Jaws
> >>>>>>>>> users, and allow them to pass to Window Eyes with smaller costs.
> >>>>>>>>> In that
> >>>>>>>>> case, I think there will be many users that won't find any reason
> >>>>>>>>> to stay
> >>>>>>>>> with Jaws.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I don't know how good is Window Eyes with Java apps though, nor
> >>>>>>>>> how well
> >>>>>>>>> reads Window Eyes the special chars in other languages with the
> >>>>>>>>> english
> >>>>>>>>> synthesizer.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Does anyone know if Window Eyes can be installed on the same
> >>>>>>>>> computer that
> >>>>>>>>> has Jaws (6) installed?
> >>>>>>>>> The Video Intercept Manager makes me afraid to test another screen
> >>>>>>>>> reader
> >>>>>>>>> when Jaws is installed...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Octavian
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>> From: <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 2:46 PM
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting
> >>>>>>>>> Introduction
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>>> This looks more powerful to me than JAWS scripting.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> From the web page:
> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.gwmicro.com/News_&_Events/Latest_News/?newsNo=87
> >>>>>>>>>> A Short Introduction to Window-Eyes Scripting, and the
> >>>>>>>>>> Window-Eyes
> >>>>>>>>>> Object Model
> >>>>>>>>>> Feb-02-2008
> >>>>>>>>>> As you most likely know by now, the scripting cat is out of the
> >>>>>>>>>> scripting bag. At ATIA, GW Micro introduced one of the most
> >>>>>>>>>> requested
> >>>>>>>>>> features in
> >>>>>>>>>> Window-Eyes: support for a scripting language. Not only is
> >>>>>>>>>> Window-Eyes
> >>>>>>>>>> providing a scripting support, but the method being used is by
> >>>>>>>>>> far the
> >>>>>>>>>> easiest available in the market today. As time goes on, we will
> >>>>>>>>>> provide more information. For now, I'd like to provide you with a
> >>>>>>>>>> small section of the introduction in the Window-Eyes Scripting
> >>>>>>>>> documentation.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Enjoy!
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> *****
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The Window-Eyes scripting engine is a COM Automation server. COM
> >>>>>>>>>> Automation, according to Microsoft, is "a technology that allows
> >>>>>>>>>> software packages to expose their unique features to scripting
> >>>>>>>>>> tools
> >>>>>>>>>> and other applications." That means all the guts of Window-Eyes
> >>>>>>>>>> are
> >>>>>>>>>> accessible through various objects, properties, methods, and
> >>>>>>>>>> events
> >>>>>>>>>> (these items make up the Window-Eyes Object Model). In addition,
> >>>>>>>>>> Window-Eyes embeds ActiveScript engines, including VBScript and
> >>>>>>>>>> JScript. This means that you can create scripts in VBScript,
> >>>>>>>>>> JScript
> >>>>>>>>>> (which is Microsoft's proprietary version of JavaScript), or any
> >>>>>>>>>> language
> >>>>>>>>> that supports COM automation.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Are you a Perl programmer, and want to use PerlScript? Be our
> >>>>>>>>>> guest.
> >>>>>>>>>> Do you prefer Python? Then why not create your scripts in
> >>>>>>>>>> ActivePython? Granted, the PerlScript, PythonScript, and similar
> >>>>>>>>>> parsing engines would need to be installed on machines where the
> >>>>>>>>>> scripts in those languages are going to be used. But if you're
> >>>>>>>>>> only
> >>>>>>>>>> creating scripts for yourself, and you happen to be an excellent
> >>>>>>>>>> Perl
> >>>>>>>>>> programmer, you have the power. Are you a C++ programmer? Are you
> >>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>> Visual Basic programmer? Do you use VBA, PHP, or .NET? Regardless
> >>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>> the language you choose, as long as it supports COM Automation,
> >>>>>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>>>> can make Window-Eyes sing (literally, if you want).
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Unlike other scripting engines' limited exposing of their
> >>>>>>>>>> interface to
> >>>>>>>>>> other applications and the use of proprietary languages,
> >>>>>>>>>> Window-Eyes
> >>>>>>>>>> scripting is an open server that not only hosts clients (i.e.
> >>>>>>>>>> scripts,
> >>>>>>>>>> executables, etc.), but also exposes itself through COM
> >>>>>>>>>> Automation to
> >>>>>>>>>> other applications. In other words, in addition to creating
> >>>>>>>>>> scripts
> >>>>>>>>>> that Window-Eyes can host, you can also access Window-Eyes
> >>>>>>>>>> objects
> >>>>>>>>>> from other programs. The possibilities are endless.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> How to Use this Guide
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The Window-Eyes Object Model reference is divided into several
> >>>>>>>>>> sections.
> >>>>>>>>>> The Objects section contains a detailed listing of all available
> >>>>>>>>>> objects, along with their properties, methods, and events. The
> >>>>>>>>>> Enumerations section lists all available constants and their
> >>>>>>>>>> values.
> >>>>>>>>>> The Custom User Interface section talks about creating your own
> >>>>>>>>>> dialogs using the Window-Eyes scripting engine. Lastly, the Tips
> >>>>>>>>>> &
> >>>>>>>>>> Tricks section provides a few ways to do common scripting tasks.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The Window-Eyes Object Model reference standardizes with the
> >>>>>>>>>> VBScript
> >>>>>>>>>> language. All examples, syntax, and other notation will be in
> >>>>>>>>>> VBScript
> >>>>>>>>>> unless otherwise noted.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> What are Objects, Properties, Methods, and Events?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Objects are containers of data, the data being a combination of
> >>>>>>>>>> properties (or attributes), methods (things you can make an
> >>>>>>>>>> object
> >>>>>>>>>> do), and events (things that an object causes to happen).
> >>>>>>>>>> Understanding the organization of an object is best done through
> >>>>>>>>>> analogy.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Imagine a dog as an object. A dog has properties, such as color,
> >>>>>>>>>> height, weight, breed, and so on. A dog has methods (or
> >>>>>>>>>> functions)
> >>>>>>>>>> such as sit, speak, stay, roll over, and heel -- these are
> >>>>>>>>>> commands
> >>>>>>>>>> that you tell a dog to perform. A dog also has events, including
> >>>>>>>>>> barking, tail wagging, and chasing cars -- these are things that
> >>>>>>>>>> dogs do
> >>>>>>>>> in their free time.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> What About Syntax?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> As mentioned previously, the Window-Eyes Object Model reference
> >>>>>>>>>> will
> >>>>>>>>>> use VBScript when supplying syntax and examples. It is important
> >>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> note, however, that accessing object information is similar in
> >>>>>>>>>> other
> >>>>>>>>>> programming languages -- you are not restricted to using
> >>>>>>>>>> VBScript.
> >>>>>>>>>> When you're working with objects, you access properties and
> >>>>>>>>>> methods
> >>>>>>>>>> using a convention called a dot operator, meaning you use a dot
> >>>>>>>>>> (or
> >>>>>>>>>> period) to connect an object with a property or method.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> For example, to assign a color to a dog object, you might do:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Dog.Color = "Brown"
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> To command your dog object to perform a task, you might say:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Dog.PlayDead
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> To listen for your dog object to bark, and then command your dog
> >>>>>>>>>> object to behave, you might try:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Sub MyDogBarked()
> >>>>>>>>>> Dog.Silence
> >>>>>>>>>> Dog.Sit
> >>>>>>>>>> Dog.Stay
> >>>>>>>>>> End Sub
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Syntax will become clearer as you read through the various
> >>>>>>>>>> objects
> >>>>>>>>>> sections, and review examples.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> More to come!
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> === End of article ===
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Jim
> >>>>>>>>>> James D Homme, , Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc.,
> >>>>>>>>>> james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "it is only possible to live happily ever after on a day-to-day
> >>>>>>>>>> basis." -- Margaret Bonnano
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Highmark internal only: Consider Usability Engineering On Your
> >>>>>>>>>> Next
> >>>>>>>>>> Project or release.
> >>>>>>>>>> http://highwire.highmark.com/sites/iwov/hwt093/
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> __________
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--
Jackie McBride
Please join my fight against breast cancer
<http://teamacs.acsevents.org/site/TR?px=1790196&pg=personal&fr_id=3489>
& Check out my homepage at:
www.abletec.serverheaven.net
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