Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting Introduction

  • From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:47:18 +0300

Are you kidding, right?

I don't like some simple things like some chars that don't sound well in Eloquence, and you give a wonderful suggestion of learning C++ and start improving a romanian synthesizer. Do you think that thing is so simple?

The US English synthesizer is the only synthesizer I really like. I don't like even the UK English synthesizer, and it was created by many people and improved in many years. Do you think it is so simple to create another one very easy? What's wrong complaining when a good software is now not as good as it was before?

I didn't asked for anything, but I just shown why I don't use the newer versions of Jaws.

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mario Percinic" <mario.percinic@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting Introduction


Well, i gave you the possible solutions, and i told you to get in the development and improvement of espeak for Romanian. By saying, it sounds bad, you don't do anything except complaining.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting Introduction


I have tried espeak, but it sounds pretty bad.
The romanian sinth of MBrola also sounds badly.

I don't think it is a problem of Eloquence with my settings, because the same Eloquence works very well in Jaws 6, but it doesn't work well with Jaws 7.

The letter t is very closed to the letter t, as well as the letter s looks very closed to s, so FS prefered to make those letters sound nice for the ears of those who are not so interested in the advanced details like the ANSI code of the chars.

When I just read the text, it is also ok for me, but not when I am correcting the text.



Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mario Percinic" <mario.percinic@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting Introduction


No, the problem is not because you read romanian texts with english eloquence. The point is that each synth language is relating to its registry values so that it knows how to read all the characters correctly. That's why i was suggesting to you to use some other synth for romanian. I don't know if you have some software synths or you don't. however if you don't have it or you are not satisfied i would recommend to you to try espeak which has support for romanian which could be improved since its an open source product, has Sapi5 support and after eloquence i found it the most responsive. I was developing espeak for Croatian language and for the last year that's the only synth i use exept eloquence on all of the systems where i work. It is very configurable , and with different voice variants you can make it to sound how you want. Since i used dolphin synths allot i made voice variant which sounds very similar to dolphin appollo or orpheus. However if you don't like its voice you can use it as a frontent for Mbrola and i know that there is mbrola for Romanian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting Introduction


I am using Jaws with Eloquence, the default sinthesizer of Jaws.
I don't think it should be a problem that I am reading texts in romanian language with an english sinthesizer. The sinthesizer shouldn't read 2 different chars in the same way without offering a possibility of reading them as it used to read them before (differently).

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mario Percinic" <mario.percinic@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting Introduction


Well that could be the case with synth you are using, and not with jaws. Speech synth also has to know how to read surtain characters in order to read it properly, screen reader is not the only case. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting Introduction


Well, I can say that I am afraid exactly of Unicode.

This is the reason I am still using Jaws 6. Since Jaws 7, Jaws has Unicode features, but since then it doesn't read the special chars as in Jaws 6 or below.

For example, in Jaws 6, it reads the letter t as thorn, s as degrees, a as ei tilda, and other few special chars, but starting with Jaws 7, for t it reads t, for s it reads s, for a it reads a, so I don't know where there is a t or a simple t, a s or a simple s, an a or a simple a.

I can make some settings in Jaws to read them correctly when they are read as separate letters, but when they are read in words, those words don't sound like before, and I don't like that.

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mario Percinic" <mario.percinic@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting Introduction


Octavian, windoweyes 7 will have full unicode support which wasn't the case with previous versions, so you don't have to be afraid, it will support lots
of languages and synths for them, including braille support.
What i can tell you also from my personal expirience is that since version 5.5 of windoweyes its possible to have both jaws and windoweyes on the same
machine.

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 2:07 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting
Introduction

This is great!

The fact that Window Eyes supports scripting, and not just a single
proprietary scripting language not very well documented, but any language that supports com automation, and if I also add the fact that Window Eyes can be set to use the same keyboard layout as Jaws, I think that even if it
is not the best screen reader yet, it will surely be very soon.

I have used Window Eyes a long time ago, but I didn't like its keyboard layout, and I heard that it is also not very friendly with some apps I use. Now I think the engineers from GW Micro will be able to make easier scripts for those applications (like Office, VS.net...), so I don't think Jaws has many advantages... at least from what I heard. (I hope I won't have a
different opinion after trying the latest Window Eyes).

As a marketing tip, I think GW Micro could make a special offer to Jaws users, and allow them to pass to Window Eyes with smaller costs. In that case, I think there will be many users that won't find any reason to stay
with Jaws.

I don't know how good is Window Eyes with Java apps though, nor how well reads Window Eyes the special chars in other languages with the english
synthesizer.

Does anyone know if Window Eyes can be installed on the same computer that
has Jaws (6) installed?
The Video Intercept Manager makes me afraid to test another screen reader
when Jaws is installed...

Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 2:46 PM
Subject: Fritz Will Be Digging Into This - Window-Eyes Scripting
Introduction



Hi,
This looks more powerful to me than JAWS scripting.

From the web page:
http://www.gwmicro.com/News_&_Events/Latest_News/?newsNo=87
A Short Introduction to Window-Eyes Scripting, and the Window-Eyes
Object Model
Feb-02-2008
As you most likely know by now, the scripting cat is out of the
scripting bag. At ATIA, GW Micro introduced one of the most requested
features in
Window-Eyes: support for a scripting language. Not only is Window-Eyes providing a scripting support, but the method being used is by far the
easiest available in the market today. As time goes on, we will
provide more information. For now, I'd like to provide you with a
small section of the introduction in the Window-Eyes Scripting
documentation.

Enjoy!

*****

The Window-Eyes scripting engine is a COM Automation server. COM
Automation, according to Microsoft, is "a technology that allows
software packages to expose their unique features to scripting tools
and other applications." That means all the guts of Window-Eyes are
accessible through various objects, properties, methods, and events
(these items make up the Window-Eyes Object Model). In addition,
Window-Eyes embeds ActiveScript engines, including VBScript and
JScript. This means that you can create scripts in VBScript, JScript (which is Microsoft's proprietary version of JavaScript), or any language
that supports COM automation.

Are you a Perl programmer, and want to use PerlScript? Be our guest.
Do you prefer Python? Then why not create your scripts in
ActivePython? Granted, the PerlScript, PythonScript, and similar
parsing engines would need to be installed on machines where the
scripts in those languages are going to be used. But if you're only
creating scripts for yourself, and you happen to be an excellent Perl
programmer, you have the power. Are you a C++ programmer? Are you a
Visual Basic programmer? Do you use VBA, PHP, or .NET? Regardless of
the language you choose, as long as it supports COM Automation, you
can make Window-Eyes sing (literally, if you want).

Unlike other scripting engines' limited exposing of their interface to other applications and the use of proprietary languages, Window-Eyes scripting is an open server that not only hosts clients (i.e. scripts, executables, etc.), but also exposes itself through COM Automation to
other applications. In other words, in addition to creating scripts
that Window-Eyes can host, you can also access Window-Eyes objects
from other programs. The possibilities are endless.

How to Use this Guide

The Window-Eyes Object Model reference is divided into several sections.
The Objects section contains a detailed listing of all available
objects, along with their properties, methods, and events. The
Enumerations section lists all available constants and their values.
The  Custom User Interface section talks about creating your own
dialogs using the Window-Eyes scripting engine. Lastly, the Tips &
Tricks section provides a few ways to do common scripting tasks.

The Window-Eyes Object Model reference standardizes with the VBScript language. All examples, syntax, and other notation will be in VBScript
unless otherwise noted.

What are Objects, Properties, Methods, and Events?

Objects are containers of data, the data being a combination of
properties (or attributes), methods (things you can make an object
do), and events (things that an object causes to happen).
Understanding the organization of an object is best done through
analogy.

Imagine a dog as an object. A dog has properties, such as color,
height, weight, breed, and so on. A dog has methods (or functions)
such as sit, speak, stay, roll over, and heel -- these are commands
that you tell a dog to perform. A dog also has events, including
barking, tail wagging, and chasing cars -- these are things that dogs do
in their free time.

What About Syntax?

As mentioned previously, the Window-Eyes Object Model reference will
use VBScript when supplying syntax and examples. It is important to
note, however, that accessing object information is similar in other
programming languages -- you are not restricted to using VBScript.
When you're working with objects, you access properties and methods
using a convention called a dot operator, meaning you use a dot (or
period) to connect an object with a property or method.

For example, to assign a color to a dog object, you might do:

Dog.Color = "Brown"

To command your dog object to perform a task, you might say:

Dog.PlayDead

To listen for your dog object to bark, and then command your dog
object to behave, you might try:

Sub MyDogBarked()
   Dog.Silence
   Dog.Sit
   Dog.Stay
End Sub

Syntax will become clearer as you read through the various objects
sections, and review examples.

More to come!

=== End of article ===

Jim
James D Homme, , Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc.,
james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810

"it is only possible to live happily ever after on a day-to-day
basis." -- Margaret Bonnano

Highmark internal only: Consider Usability Engineering On Your Next
Project or release. http://highwire.highmark.com/sites/iwov/hwt093/

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