Re: Emacspeak on Mac OSX Revisited
- From: David Tseng <davidct1209@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 11:15:09 -0700
You're certainly welcome to write some unit tests for the server.
On 6/13/11, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Agreed I wonder should we write a test program to exersize the Mac tts
> server.
>
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Tseng
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 10:18 AM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Emacspeak on Mac OSX Revisited
>
> There's still no reason why it shouldn't work assuming
> - python bindings to tts, appkit are the same.
> - various bugs in tts still the same (worked around in the server).
> - aifc (used for tone generation) behaves the same.
>
> Basically, just need to know where the server's crashing on his setup.
>
> On 6/13/11, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Ah maybe that's it. You I think are the first to be testing on something
>> that old.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kerneels Roos
>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 7:55 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Emacspeak on Mac OSX Revisited
>>
>> Ken, specs as follows:
>> PPC Mac Mini,
>> 1.41 GHz CPU clock,
>> 512 MB RAM,
>> OSX 10.5.8 (Leopard),
>> Python 2.5,
>> Last Xcode released for Leopard PPC (Xcode 3.4.1),
>> latest everything else of the open source stuff (emacs, emacspeak and
>> all dependencies installed by macports).
>>
>> Have noticed a Python 2.7 installation in /opt somewhere -- probably
>> done by macports -- but I couldn't get the mac speech server to run off
>> it since it struggled to find Python modules. Not sure how to resolve
>> that. It might be as simple as including some path in some env var --
>> any ideas?
>>
>> It's not a fast machine as you can see from the specs, but it should be
>> able to run console stuff effortlessly.
>>
>> Some questions if I may:
>>
>> 001. Would running itt on Python 2.7 as apposed to the 2.5 version make
>> a significant difference?
>>
>> 010. Is it possible that, although I did use macports to get latest
>> emacs that it's still running some other, older emacs?
>>
>> 011. Is Command Key + F5, which toggles VoiceOver on and off, sufficient
>> for getting VoiceOver out of the way?
>>
>> 100. Yes, binary numbering.... Just checking you are awake.
>>
>> Florian, thanks for the Alt / Option / Meta key tip.
>>
>> Kerns
>>
>> On 6/13/2011 12:32 PM, Ken Perry wrote:
>>> Um it's not the terminal. What python are you using? What OS and such?
>> I
>>> can tell you that on this Mac book pro laptop the emacspeak runs like a
>>> rocket.
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kerneels Roos
>>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 3:54 AM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: Emacspeak on Mac OSX Revisited
>>>
>>> Hi Ken,
>>>
>>> It would open up emacs but without the usual default text, as if
>>> something was blocking or failing. When I ran emacs it worked like emacs
>>> should. And of course, no speech :-). As an aside, this is exactly the
>>> situation I experienced before under linux when I then just gave up on
>>> it, but read on for a more pleasant ending...
>>>
>>> Well, Bart and Florian's posts put me in the right direction; I looked
>>> at emacspeak/servers/mac, corrected the shabang at the top to point to
>>> the proper Python:
>>> #! /usr/bin/pythong
>>> instead of
>>> #! /usr/bin/python2.6
>>>
>>> Then I saw that the python script wasn't executable, did:
>>> sudo chmod +x ./mac
>>> and now, with VoiceOver turned off the testing of the speech server
>> worked.
>>>
>>> Emacspaek still didn't seem to work totally right, so what I did is to
>>> make config, make emacspeak and finally make install after changing the
>>> ownership of the code to my user instead of root. Although I *thought* I
>>> did your instructions verbatim, it seems that a bit of creativity on my
>>> part caused me to type:
>>> sudo svn co [url of emacspeak repo] etc.
>>> so what was happening was that svn got emacspeak as root, I compiled it
>>> as root, installed it as root and then tried to run it as non-root :-)
>>>
>>> After redoing everything (config, make) as my own user and only
>>> installing as root, plus the DTK_PROGRAM=mac env var, plus the shabang
>>> change, and with VoiceOver off... I slowly typed "emacspeak", held my
>>> breath and slammed the enter button. Nothing, and then bang it started
>>> talking; "My circuits are functioning perfectly -- where in the world
>>> have you had a system saying that ha ha, quite retro!
>>>
>>> So it finally worked, but with a snag or two;
>>> 1. the Alt, or Option key in Mac parlance doesn't seem to get picked up
>>> so I had to use the alternative Escape key + whatever.
>>>
>>> 2. Also, the system seems very sluggish and normal cursor movements
>>> would speak something, but then stop speaking (while the cursor is
>>> actually moving around and then perhaps start speaking again. While
>>> there is no speech you would just hear "beep" on every key press /
>>> cursor movement as if it is thinking or you've reached the bottom of the
>>> file (which is not the case, just the same kind of beep sound).
>>>
>>> I thing the problems described above is partly to be blamed on the
>>> Terminal program, so next I'm going to try Bart's way of running a Cocoa
>>> version of emacs with emacspeak.
>>>
>>> On my quest to get emacspeak working I delved into the docs in the svn
>>> repo and man, without any intended insult to anyone, it is a big mess! A
>>> few guys have written a lot of fine documentation, but it's very
>>> fragmented and I couldn't find simple instructions on how the whole
>>> speech server thing works. Also, there is docs there from way, way back
>>> which most likely don't apply any longer. Docs labeled as containing
>>> instructions on how to get espeak working with emacspeak doesn't have
>>> that info in them and so on.
>>>
>>> Docs on actually using emacspeak and all it's modes / add ons I haven't
>>> looked at since I just wanted install and config instructions, so can't
>>> say anything about that. I can totally understand why people would just
>>> give up on trying to setup emacspeak since things are very confused ---
>>> sorry if you wrote emacspeak docs and this offends you! It's not my
>>> intention to offend but to constructively critisize.
>>>
>>> Bart, that howto on how to get the mac version of the speech server to
>>> work is a good project, but since the email you sent was apparently cut
>>> off, where can I get the full version of that (if it exists already)?
>>>
>>> I guess this is the situation with most systems that are many years old
>>> (docs being fragmented). Emacspeak is still a very exciting prospect,
>>> but it would help if we can have a comprehensive path of docs how to get
>>> it running first and then Alex's tutorial and others can take over from
>>> there.
>>>
>>> Since emacs comes in windows versions as well, would it not be trivial
>>> to get emacspeak also working on windows? Perhaps a new speech server
>>> written with Stefic's phonemic?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Kerneels
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/10/2011 6:39 PM, Ken Perry wrote:
>>>> When you say it doesn't work what happens when you type emacspeak.
>>>>
>>>> ken
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kerneels
> Roos
>>>> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 4:08 AM
>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: Emacspeak on Mac OSX Revisited
>>>>
>>>> Hi List,
>>>>
>>>> Good day to you all. I've meticulously followed Ken's instructions for
>>>> installing emacspeak on Mac OSX but it's still not speaking.
>>>> Everything downloaded, compiled and installed without errors although
>>>> macports did download a lot of stuff which I suppose emacs and emacspeak
>>>> depends on.
>>>>
>>>> Emacs and even emacspeak does open, but no speech. The DTK_PROGRAM
>>>> environment variable is set -- if I do "echo $DTK_PROGRAM " in a
>>>> terminal it prints "mac".
>>>>
>>>> I'm not looking for emacspeak or emacs help since that is well
>>>> documented by Alex's doc and others, but I am looking for more info on
>>>> how to get emacspeak working on a mac. Here are some basic questions of
>>>> which I didn't catch the answer although I've went through the posts
>>>> meticulously.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Do you have to turn VoiceOver off before you start emacspeak?
>>>>
>>>> 2. Can emacspaek work with the VoiceOver sub system and use the mac TTS
>>>> or do you have to use espeak?
>>>>
>>>> 3. Without actually running emacspeak is there a way to test all the
>>>> components separately?
>>>>
>>>> 4. Can emacspeak only work in the terminal version of emacs or could it
>>>> also work in a Cocoa version -- read something about Aqua Emacs ---
>>>> looks like a GUI version of emacs.
>>>>
>>>> 5. Has anyone managed to get emacspeak working on Leopard (OSX 10.5.8)?
>>>>
>>>> 6. Any other nifty programmers editors for Mac? My beloved VIM, both
>>>> terminal and GUI versions don't seem to play nicely with VoiceOver, or
>>>> shall I rather say VoiceOver doesn't seem to play nicely with them since
>>>> they are nice fellows!
>>>>
>>>> 7. I've asked before about a terminal program improvement over the
>>>> standard terminal app in Leopard, which also doesn't work properly with
>>>> VoiceOver. Any other ideas besides yassr and mactelnet?
>>>>
>>>> 8. Are there no full screen , basic terminal / console mode for OSX like
>>>> in linux Ctrl+Alt + F1 for which Braille or voice can work? When booting
>>>> and holding down Shift you get to a single user mode that is similar to
>>>> the linuc console, so this does exist although that one doesn't have
>>> speech.
>>>> 9. A clever way to access a mac is of course via ssh -- saw Florian was
>>>> doing this -- but then again no emacspeak possible there.
>>>>
>>>> 10. I understand emacspeak provides a sort of networkable speech
>>>> protocol similar to X Windows which in theory would enable you to write
>>>> a speech server placed anywhere on your network. How well does this
>>>> really work? Could you for example ssh into a mac, set the speech up on
>>>> emacspeak to use a speech server on the computer you are ssh'ing from?
>>>>
>>>> Many questions!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance for anyone attempting to answer some of these.
>>>>
>>>> Kerns
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> Kerneels Roos
>> Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998
>> Skype: cornelis.roos
>>
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