Re: Dang it!!

  • From: Kevin Jones <kevin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:40:29 -0500

it only works with jaws though so there are all the other screen reader users out there who use something else.



dusty bray wrote:
i'm so steamed!! It appears JAWS thought of this sound scheme idea first. i really had to hunt for it, but i found it deep in some menus. And i don't think it just associates with a list of words; i think it actually associates with control types like mine does. Dang it!

Oh well, but i will make it popular! smile. And hopefully i won't be sued by JAWS; it's a great idea and i think it could really advance the blind community if it were universally accepted someday. i think JAWS' version is a little different simply because they don't define a set of default sounds. You have to set each one yourself, don't you? So if nothing else, i would like to promote a standard set of sounds just as sighted users have a universally recognized set of icons.

Well, thanks so much, everyone, for letting me know about this feature in JAWS. i'm going to go sulk now. smile

dusty.......


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: jimpanes@xxxxxxxxx
    To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind
    Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:04:20 -0400

    Hi Dusty,
JAWS has a speach and sounds manager. It allows any word that JAWS
    is pronouncing to either be associated with a sound or use a sound
    to substitute for a word.
While this mechanism can be used to approximate the behavior of your
    web page editor, it does not truly recognize the types of objects on
    the screen.
I have made this adjustment in my dictionary manager so that I hear
    a harp string instead of the word "link" a million times when I read
    a web page. This one change alone has sped up my web access and made
    life much less annoying for me.
Using sounds in a way that does not interfere with the user hearing
    the text may very well speed up access. Any improvement in this area
    is a welcome change.
Thanks for trying this idea. I'll give it a try. Regards,
    Jim
    jimpanes@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jimpanes@xxxxxxxxx>
    jimpanes@xxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jimpanes@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
    "Everything is easy when you know how."
    ----- Original Message -----
    *From:* John Greer <mailto:jpgreer17@xxxxxxxxxxx>
    *To:* programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    *Sent:* Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:36 AM
    *Subject:* Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind

    Well to tell you the truth, I have known some blind persons to
    assign sounds to every event that can be assigned in Windows.  So
    you also have to plan for those people too.  I would also have to
    agree, there should also be an option to not use the sounds.  The
    screen reader however would still need to identify the elements that
    the sounds are identifying though.  For example, instead of having a
    pop sound to identify a Submit button that is red, the screen reader
    should say red Submit button.

        ----- Original Message -----
        *From:* dusty bray <mailto:dusty_bray@xxxxxxxxxxx>
        *To:* programmingblind@freelistsorg
        <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        *Sent:* Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:09 AM
        *Subject:* RE: Web Page Editor for the Blind

        i could always use a good "boing" sound.  smile.  But i would
        certainly accompny it with some kind of text of course.  You
        know, it's really hard to find good, free sound effects.  i'll
        have to check out clipmate.

        Well, i see what you're saying about sounds clashing, and that
is another good reason to allow the user to turn sounds off. However, how often do applications make sounds when objects
        receive focus?  They usually accompany an action, like a button
        click.  So, i wouldn't think these sounds would get in the way
        very often.

        dusty.......

         > From: leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
         > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
         > Subject: Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind
         > Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 23:34:08 -0400
         >
         > Well, all I can say is I have a great "boing" sound for an
        error condition.
         > but then again, text describing the error would really be
        more relevant than
         > and boing...
         >
         > If you want to hear some great sound effects, check out the
        old clipmate
         > clibpoard manager for windows. I loved using the various
        features so I
         > could hear how it sounded, and indeed the sounds were
        helpful. But this
         > brings up the problem of your program having sounds that
        might clash with
         > another program. Just a thought.
         > Good luck and happy hacking.
         > --le
         >
         > ----- Original Message -----
         > From: "Matthew2007" <matthew2007@xxxxxxxxxxx>
         > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
         > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 10:50 PM
         > Subject: Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind
         >
         >
         > This method of generating audio icons is interesting. It does
        appear to hold
         > the potential of speeding up computing, but it might have a
        steep learning
         > curve as the new user will have to take lots of time out to
        learn the sounds
         > then create the mental associations with the sound and the
        intended action.
         > In other words, there is a possibility of new users giving up
        on it as they
         > might deem it much more difficult to use than the more common
        methods of
         > computing. That is, it will be easier for them to know what
        to do with an
         > audio message telling them "Ok," than an audio message
        telling them "beep
         > beep." Now that I think of it, if you attach piano sounds to
        the audio-icons
         > you might end up composing quite a musical piece and not even
        know it.
         >
         > Then again there is the noise factor as all these strange
        sounds might annoy
         > or at the very least distract others in the vicinity.
         >
         > I do believe that your audio-icons do have great potential in
        that they can
         > be of great use to power users that only need that tiny hint
        of reassurance
         > they're moving along and clicking what they intend to click.
         >
         > "Oh wait," I just thought of something, doesn't this type of
        computing
         > already exist to some extent within the Jaws speech and
        sounds manager?
         >
         > Regardless, I would continue exploring this interaction
        channel as it might
         > ultimately yield lots of efficiency for the proficient blind
        computer user.
         >
         > Thanks,
         > Matthew
         > ---- Original Message -----
         > From: "dusty bray" <dusty_bray@xxxxxxxxxxx>
         > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
         > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 7:19 PM
         > Subject: RE: Web Page Editor for the Blind
         >
         >
         > >
         > > Yeah, you're definitely right, inthane-- it should have an
        option to turn
         > > off the sounds, but this version is severely lacking in
        many, many ways
         > > right now. i just wanted to give everyone an idea of how
        this system
         > > works.
         > >
         > > And honestly, i think if i gave that option initially, then
        everyone would
         > > just turn it off and not actually try to make it work smile. i
         > > anticipate this being somewhat of a learning curve because
        the user has to
         > > build mental connections between a sound and its meaning.
        In the same
         > > way, users had difficulty transitioning from command line
        to Windows based
         > > operating systems because the graphical symbols were
        totally unfamiliar at
         > > first. But today, there exists a universally recognized set
        of graphics
         > > for identifying objects, and these graphics allow sighted
        users to work
         > > more efficiently now. i see an opportunity to use
        background noises for
         > > the same purpose. You could fit a lot of useful information
        in that empty
         > > space.
         > >
         > > Of course, Windows has already tried to incorporate sounds
        into the
         > > interface, but these sounds were used very inappropriately.
        Instead of
         > > associating objects with sounds, they associated actions
        with sounds,
         > > which gives information after the fact. So even as i use
        this new system,
         > > i'm having to consciously reprogram myself not to think of
        these sounds as
         > > actions but as markers for object types.
         > >
         > > But i do want to know if people find this particular set of
        sounds
         > > overbearing. Should i adjust the volumes? Can you hear the
        voice clearly
         > > over the sounds?
         > >
         > > Also, did you ever recieve my original message?? That's
        really strange.
         > > It's still programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, right?
         > >
         > > Ok, well definitely give me your oppinion if you get a
        chance to use the
         > > software. Thanks,
         > >
         > > dusty.......
         > >
         > >
         > >
         > >
         > >> From: inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
         > >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
         > >> Subject: Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind
         > >> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:23:42 -0700
         > >>
         > >> interesting, I got your reply to Dusty's message, but
        haven't received
         > >> the
         > >> original even yet, hmmmmm!
         > >>
         > >> I haven't tried your ap yet Dusty, but it would be nice if
        you could
         > >> reverse
         > >> things, in other words, turn off the added sounds, and
        return it to full
         > >> speaking of the items, since I don't do well with sounds,
        maybe a check
         > >> box
         > >> in an options menu/dialog for changing it, giving the user
        the choice?
         > >>
         > >> regards,
         > >> inthane
         > >> ? For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful
        Programs, and
         > >> Links
         > >> to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications,
        visit me at:
         > >> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
         > >> ? to be able to view a simple programming project in
        several programming
         > >> languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
         > >> http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
         > >>
         > >> ----- Original Message -----
         > >> From: "John covici" <covici@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
         > >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
         > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:49 PM
         > >> Subject: Web Page Editor for the Blind
         > >>
         > >>
         > >> >I wonder if it would work with hardware speech at all
        since the speech
         > >> > and the sound may get out of sync? Ever test this?
         > >> >
         > >> > on Wednesday 10/10/2007 dusty
        bray(dusty_bray@xxxxxxxxxxx) wrote
         > >> > >
         > >> > > Hi everybody,
         > >> > >
         > >> > > i$,1rym looking for people to evaluate the Web page
        editor that
         > >> > > i$,1rym starting and give some feedback.
         > >> > >
         > >> > > i$,1rym incorporating some cool features into this
        program that i
         > >> > > hope
         > >> > > will allow blind users to easily create content-rich
        Web pages.
         > >> > > i$,1rym especially excited about the mathematical
        expression editor.
         > >> > > And i think you$,1ryll enjoy some of the other
        surprises i$,1ryve
         > >> > > added.
         > >> > >
         > >> > > This application also introduces a new concept for quickly
         > >> > > differentiating between controls in the editor$,1rys
        interface. In
         > >> > > applications designed for sighted users, components
        are visually
         > >> > > distinct: buttons appear raised, text boxes appear
        inset, and each
         > >> > > item
         > >> > > differs in some way that suggests its intended
        function. Page
         > >> > > Designer
         > >> > > achieves this effect auditorily. The application plays
        programmatic
         > >> > > sounds in parallel with voice output to quickly
        identify both an
         > >> > > object$,1rys type and its value. So rather than
        speaking "OK
         > >> > > button",
         > >> > > the editor speaks "OK" and plays a popping sound at
        the same moment,
         > >> > > effectively saving half the number of syllables.
        Textboxes are
         > >> > > associated with a tapping sound; picture boxes are
        accompanied by the
         > >> > > sound of a camera shutter; the volume of a radio
        button$,1rys sound
         > >> > > varies depending its selection state.
         > >> > >
         > >> > > Visit this link to download the application:
         > >> > >
        http://here-i-am.sourceforge.net/downloads/Here-I-Am_Page-Designer1.zip
         > >> > > The executable is named here-i-am_page-designer.
         > >> > >
         > >> > > Please have patience with it. This is only a beta
        version of the
         > >> > > program. Also, the interface is very different and
        takes some
         > >> > > getting
         > >> > > used to.
         > >> > >
         > >> > > i hate making concessions for JAWS, but i$,1ryve
        changed the
         > >> > > navigation keys to ensure my program doesn$,1ryt
        conflict. As
         > >> > > before,
         > >> > > the navigation model arranges content into a hierarchy
        with parent
         > >> > > nodes
         > >> > > corresponding to higher levels of abstraction and
        child nodes
         > >> > > corresponding to lower levels of abstraction. To see
        more details of
         > >> > > an
         > >> > > object, press spacebar. If at any point you becomes
        lost, pressing
         > >> > > Escape will move the selection up one level of
        abstraction, revealing
         > >> > > a
         > >> > > "bigger picture".
         > >> > >
         > >> > > Unfortunately, this program is still far from the
        screen reader i
         > >> > > envision. This is just a self-voicing application, and
        the objects
         > >> > > do
         > >> > > not correspond to actual objects on the screen, so it
        probably lacks
         > >> > > much of the functionality to which you may be
        accustomed. But i feel
         > >> > > like i$,1rym slowly getting closer.
         > >> > >
         > >> > > Hope you enjoy it,
         > >> > >
         > >> > > dusty.......
         > >> > >
         > >> > >
         > >> > >
        _________________________________________________________________
         > >> > > Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the
        Messenger
         > >> > > Caf,Ai.
         > >> > > Stop by today.
         > >> > >
        
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline<html>
         > >> > > <head>
         > >> > > <style>
         > >> > > .hmmessage P
         > >> > > {
         > >> > > margin:0px;
         > >> > > padding:0px
         > >> > > }
         > >> > > body.hmmessage
         > >> > > {
         > >> > > FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
         > >> > > FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
         > >> > > }
         > >> > > </style>
         > >> > > </head>
         > >> > > <body class='hmmessage'>
         > >> > > Hi everybody,<br><br>i$,1rym looking for people to
        evaluate the Web
         > >> > > page editor that i$,1rym starting and give some
         > >> > > feedback.<br><br>i$,1rym incorporating some cool
        features into this
         > >> > > program that i hope will allow blind users to easily
        create
         > >> > > content-rich
         > >> > > Web pages.&nbsp; i$,1rym especially excited about the
        mathematical
         > >> > > expression editor.&nbsp; And i think you$,1ryll enjoy
        some of the
         > >> > > other surprises i$,1ryve added.<br><br>This
        application also
         > >> > > introduces a new concept for quickly differentiating
        between controls
         > >> > > in
         > >> > > the editor$,1rys interface. In applications designed
        for sighted
         > >> > > users, components are visually distinct: buttons
        appear raised, text
         > >> > > boxes appear inset, and each item differs in some way
        that suggests
         > >> > > its
         > >> > > intended function. Page Designer achieves this effect
        auditorily. The
         > >> > > application plays programmatic sounds in parallel with
        voice output
         > >> > > to
         > >> > > quickly identify both an object$,1rys type and its
        value. So rather
         > >> > > than speaking "OK button", the editor speaks "OK" and
        plays a popping
         > >> > > sound at the same moment, effectively saving half the
        number of
         > >> > > syllables. Textboxes are associated with a tapping
        sound; picture
         > >> > > boxes
         > >> > > are accompanied by the sound of a camera shutter; the
        volume of a
         > >> > > radio
         > >> > > button$,1rys sound varies depending its selection
         > >> > > state.<br><br>Visit
         > >> > > this link to download the application:&nbsp;
         > >> > >
        
http://here-i-am.sourceforge.net/downloads/Here-I-Am_Page-Designer1.zip<br>The
         > >> > > executable is named
        here-i-am_page-designer.<br><br>Please have
         > >> > > patience
         > >> > > with it.&nbsp; This is only a beta version of the
        program.&nbsp;
         > >> > > Also,
         > >> > > the interface is very different and takes some getting
        used
         > >> > > to.<br><br>i
         > >> > > hate making concessions for JAWS, but i$,1ryve
        changed the
         > >> > > navigation
         > >> > > keys to ensure my program doesn$,1ryt conflict.&nbsp;
        As before, the
         > >> > > navigation model arranges content into a hierarchy
        with parent nodes
         > >> > > corresponding to higher levels of abstraction and
        child nodes
         > >> > > corresponding to lower levels of abstraction. To see
        more details of
         > >> > > an
         > >> > > object, press spacebar. If at any point you becomes
        lost, pressing
         > >> > > Escape will move the selection up one level of
        abstraction, revealing
         > >> > > a
         > >> > > "bigger picture".<br><br>Unfortunately, this program
        is still far
         > >> > > from
         > >> > > the screen reader i envision.&nbsp; This is just a
        self-voicing
         > >> > > application, and the objects do not correspond to
        actual objects on
         > >> > > the
         > >> > > screen, so it probably lacks much of the functionality
        to which you
         > >> > > may
         > >> > > be accustomed.&nbsp; But i feel like i$,1rym slowly
        getting
         > >> > > closer.<br><br>Hope you enjoy
        it,<br><br>dusty.......<br><br><br
         > >> > > /><hr
         > >> > > />Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the
        Messenger
         > >> > > Caf,Ai. <a
         > >> > >
        
href='http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline'
         > >> > > target='_new'>Stop by today!</a></body>
         > >> > > </html>
         > >> > --
         > >> > Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The
        question is:
         > >> > How do
         > >> > you spend it?
         > >> >
         > >> > John Covici
         > >> > covici@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'カ翰学ョf渇旛jxハ恭・xjリカ淌 ュ
        迥ヒ「ク・嘯カ・nX
         > >> __________
         > >> View the list's information and change your settings at
         > >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
         > >>
         > >
         > >
        _________________________________________________________________
         > > Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You!
         > > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
         >
         > __________
         > View the list's information and change your settings at
         > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
         >
         > __________
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