Dang it!!

  • From: dusty bray <dusty_bray@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:24:38 -0400

i'm so steamed!!  It appears JAWS thought of this sound scheme idea
first.  i really had to hunt for it, but i found it deep in some
menus.  And i don't think it just associates with a list of words; i
think it actually associates with control types like mine does.  Dang
it!



Oh well, but i will make it popular!  smile.  And hopefully i won't be
sued by JAWS; it's a great idea and i think it could really advance the
blind community if it were universally accepted someday.  i think JAWS'
version is a little different simply because they don't define a set of
default sounds.  You have to set each one yourself, don't you?  So if
nothing else, i would like to promote a standard set of sounds just as
sighted users have a universally recognized set of icons.



Well, thanks so much, everyone, for letting me know about this feature in JAWS. 
 i'm going to go sulk now.  smile



dusty.......



From: jimpanes@xxxxxxxxx
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:04:20 -0400










Hi Dusty,
 
JAWS has a speach and sounds manager. It allows any word 
that JAWS is pronouncing to either be associated with a sound or use a sound to 
substitute for a word.
 
While this mechanism can be used to approximate the 
behavior of your web page editor, it does not truly recognize the types of 
objects on the screen.
 
I have made this adjustment in my dictionary manager so 
that I hear a harp string instead of the word "link" a million times when I 
read 
a web page. This one change alone has sped up my web access and made life much 
less annoying for me.
 
Using sounds in a way that does not interfere with the 
user hearing the text may very well speed up access. Any improvement in this 
area is a welcome change.
 
Thanks for trying this idea. I'll give it a 
try.
 
Regards,
Jim
jimpanes@xxxxxxxxx
jimpanes@xxxxxxxxxxxx
"Everything is 
easy when you know how."

----- Original Message ----- 
From: John Greer 

To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:36 AM
Subject: Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind


Well to tell you the truth, I have known some blind 
persons to assign sounds to every event that can be assigned in Windows.  
So you also have to plan for those people too.  I would also have to agree, 
there should also be an option to not use the sounds.  The screen reader 
however would still need to identify the elements that the sounds are 
identifying though.  For example, instead of having a pop sound to identify 
a Submit button that is red, the screen reader should say red Submit 
button.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  dusty 
  bray 
  To: programmingblind@freelistsorg 
  
  Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:09 
  AM
  Subject: RE: Web Page Editor for the 
  Blind
  
i could always use a good "boing" sound.  smile.  But 
  i would certainly accompny it with some kind of text of course.  You 
  know, it's really hard to find good, free sound effects.  i'll have to 
  check out clipmate.

Well, i see what you're saying about sounds 
  clashing, and that is another good reason to allow the user to turn sounds 
  off.  However, how often do applications make sounds when objects receive 
  focus?  They usually accompany an action, like a button click.  So, 
  i wouldn't think these sounds would get in the way very 
  often.

dusty.......

> From: leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Web Page Editor for 
  the Blind
> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 23:34:08 -0400
> 
> Well, 
  all I can say is I have a great "boing" sound for an error condition.
> 
  but then again, text describing the error would really be more relevant 
  than
> and boing...
> 
> If you want to hear some great 
  sound effects, check out the old clipmate
> clibpoard manager for 
  windows. I loved using the various features so I
> could hear how it 
  sounded, and indeed the sounds were helpful. But this
> brings up the 
  problem of your program having sounds that might clash with
> another 
  program. Just a thought.
> Good luck and happy hacking.
> 
  --le
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: 
  "Matthew2007" <matthew2007@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: 
  <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 
  2007 10:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind
> 
  
> 
> This method of generating audio icons is interesting. It 
  does appear to hold
> the potential of speeding up computing, but it 
  might have a steep learning
> curve as the new user will have to take 
  lots of time out to learn the sounds
> then create the mental 
  associations with the sound and the intended action.
> In other words, 
  there is a possibility of new users giving up on it as they
> might deem 
  it much more difficult to use than the more common methods of
> 
  computing. That is, it will be easier for them to know what to do with 
  an
> audio message telling them "Ok," than an audio message telling them 
  "beep
> beep." Now that I think of it, if you attach piano sounds to the 
  audio-icons
> you might end up composing quite a musical piece and not 
  even know it.
> 
> Then again there is the noise factor as all 
  these strange sounds might annoy
> or at the very least distract others 
  in the vicinity.
> 
> I do believe that your audio-icons do have 
  great potential in that they can
> be of great use to power users that 
  only need that tiny hint of reassurance
> they're moving along and 
  clicking what they intend to click.
> 
> "Oh wait," I just thought 
  of something, doesn't this type of computing
> already exist to some 
  extent within the Jaws speech and sounds manager?
> 
> Regardless, 
  I would continue exploring this interaction channel as it might
> 
  ultimately yield lots of efficiency for the proficient blind computer 
  user.
> 
> Thanks,
> Matthew
> ---- Original Message 
  ----- 
> From: "dusty bray" <dusty_bray@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: 
  <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 
  2007 7:19 PM
> Subject: RE: Web Page Editor for the Blind
> 
  
> 
> >
> > Yeah, you're definitely right, inthane-- 
  it should have an option to turn
> > off the sounds, but this version 
  is severely lacking in many, many ways
> > right now. i just wanted 
  to give everyone an idea of how this system
> > works.
> 
  >
> > And honestly, i think if i gave that option initially, then 
  everyone would
> > just turn it off and not actually try to make it 
  work smile. i
> > anticipate this being somewhat of a learning curve 
  because the user has to
> > build mental connections between a sound 
  and its meaning. In the same
> > way, users had difficulty 
  transitioning from command line to Windows based
> > operating 
  systems because the graphical symbols were totally unfamiliar at
> > 
  first. But today, there exists a universally recognized set of 
  graphics
> > for identifying objects, and these graphics allow 
  sighted users to work
> > more efficiently now. i see an opportunity 
  to use background noises for
> > the same purpose. You could fit a 
  lot of useful information in that empty
> > space.
> 
  >
> > Of course, Windows has already tried to incorporate sounds 
  into the
> > interface, but these sounds were used very 
  inappropriately. Instead of
> > associating objects with sounds, they 
  associated actions with sounds,
> > which gives information after the 
  fact. So even as i use this new system,
> > i'm having to consciously 
  reprogram myself not to think of these sounds as
> > actions but as 
  markers for object types.
> >
> > But i do want to know if 
  people find this particular set of sounds
> > overbearing. Should i 
  adjust the volumes? Can you hear the voice clearly
> > over the 
  sounds?
> >
> > Also, did you ever recieve my original 
  message?? That's really strange.
> > It's still 
  programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, right?
> >
> > Ok, well 
  definitely give me your oppinion if you get a chance to use the
> > 
  software. Thanks,
> >
> > dusty.......
> >
> 
  >
> >
> >
> >> From: 
  inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> To: 
  programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: Re: Web Page Editor 
  for the Blind
> >> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:23:42 -0700
> 
  >>
> >> interesting, I got your reply to Dusty's message, 
  but haven't received
> >> the
> >> original even yet, 
  hmmmmm!
> >>
> >> I haven't tried your ap yet Dusty, 
  but it would be nice if you could
> >> reverse
> >> 
  things, in other words, turn off the added sounds, and return it to 
  full
> >> speaking of the items, since I don't do well with 
  sounds, maybe a check
> >> box
> >> in an options 
  menu/dialog for changing it, giving the user the choice?
> 
  >>
> >> regards,
> >> inthane
> >> ? 
  For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and
> 
  >> Links
> >> to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and 
  Applications, visit me at:
> >> 
  http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
> >> ? to be able to view a 
  simple programming project in several programming
> >> languages, 
  visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
> >> 
  http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
> >>
> >> 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "John covici" 
  <covici@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: 
  <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, 
  October 10, 2007 2:49 PM
> >> Subject: Web Page Editor for the 
  Blind
> >>
> >>
> >> >I wonder if it 
  would work with hardware speech at all since the speech
> >> > 
  and the sound may get out of sync? Ever test this?
> >> 
  >
> >> > on Wednesday 10/10/2007 dusty 
  bray(dusty_bray@xxxxxxxxxxx) wrote
> >> > >
> >> 
  > > Hi everybody,
> >> > >
> >> > > 
  i$,1rym looking for people to evaluate the Web page editor that
> 
  >> > > i$,1rym starting and give some feedback.
> >> 
  > >
> >> > > i$,1rym incorporating some cool features 
  into this program that i
> >> > > hope
> >> > 
  > will allow blind users to easily create content-rich Web pages.
> 
  >> > > i$,1rym especially excited about the mathematical 
  expression editor.
> >> > > And i think you$,1ryll enjoy 
  some of the other surprises i$,1ryve
> >> > > 
  added.
> >> > >
> >> > > This application 
  also introduces a new concept for quickly
> >> > > 
  differentiating between controls in the editor$,1rys interface. In
> 
  >> > > applications designed for sighted users, components are 
  visually
> >> > > distinct: buttons appear raised, text 
  boxes appear inset, and each
> >> > > item
> >> 
  > > differs in some way that suggests its intended function. 
  Page
> >> > > Designer
> >> > > achieves 
  this effect auditorily. The application plays programmatic
> >> 
  > > sounds in parallel with voice output to quickly identify both 
  an
> >> > > object$,1rys type and its value. So rather than 
  speaking "OK
> >> > > button",
> >> > > 
  the editor speaks "OK" and plays a popping sound at the same moment,
> 
  >> > > effectively saving half the number of syllables. Textboxes 
  are
> >> > > associated with a tapping sound; picture boxes 
  are accompanied by the
> >> > > sound of a camera shutter; 
  the volume of a radio button$,1rys sound
> >> > > varies 
  depending its selection state.
> >> > >
> >> 
  > > Visit this link to download the application:
> >> > 
  > 
  http://here-i-am.sourceforge.net/downloads/Here-I-Am_Page-Designer1.zip
> 
  >> > > The executable is named here-i-am_page-designer.
> 
  >> > >
> >> > > Please have patience with it. 
  This is only a beta version of the
> >> > > program. Also, 
  the interface is very different and takes some
> >> > > 
  getting
> >> > > used to.
> >> > >
> 
  >> > > i hate making concessions for JAWS, but i$,1ryve changed 
  the
> >> > > navigation keys to ensure my program 
  doesn$,1ryt conflict. As
> >> > > before,
> >> 
  > > the navigation model arranges content into a hierarchy with 
  parent
> >> > > nodes
> >> > > 
  corresponding to higher levels of abstraction and child nodes
> >> 
  > > corresponding to lower levels of abstraction. To see more details 
  of
> >> > > an
> >> > > object, press 
  spacebar. If at any point you becomes lost, pressing
> >> > 
  > Escape will move the selection up one level of abstraction, 
  revealing
> >> > > a
> >> > > "bigger 
  picture".
> >> > >
> >> > > Unfortunately, 
  this program is still far from the screen reader i
> >> > > 
  envision. This is just a self-voicing application, and the objects
> 
  >> > > do
> >> > > not correspond to actual 
  objects on the screen, so it probably lacks
> >> > > much of 
  the functionality to which you may be accustomed. But i feel
> >> 
  > > like i$,1rym slowly getting closer.
> >> > 
  >
> >> > > Hope you enjoy it,
> >> > 
  >
> >> > > dusty.......
> >> > 
  >
> >> > >
> >> > > 
  _________________________________________________________________
> 
  >> > > Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the 
  Messenger
> >> > > Caf,Ai.
> >> > > Stop 
  by today.
> >> > > 
  
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline<html>
> 
  >> > > <head>
> >> > > 
  <style>
> >> > > .hmmessage P
> >> > 
  > {
> >> > > margin:0px;
> >> > > 
  padding:0px
> >> > > }
> >> > > 
  body.hmmessage
> >> > > {
> >> > > 
  FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
> >> > > FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
> 
  >> > > }
> >> > > </style>
> 
  >> > > </head>
> >> > > <body 
  class='hmmessage'>
> >> > > Hi 
  everybody,<br><br>i$,1rym looking for people to evaluate the 
  Web
> >> > > page editor that i$,1rym starting and give 
  some
> >> > > feedback.<br><br>i$,1rym 
  incorporating some cool features into this
> >> > > program 
  that i hope will allow blind users to easily create
> >> > > 
  content-rich
> >> > > Web pages.&nbsp; i$,1rym 
  especially excited about the mathematical
> >> > > 
  expression editor.&nbsp; And i think you$,1ryll enjoy some of the
> 
  >> > > other surprises i$,1ryve added.<br><br>This 
  application also
> >> > > introduces a new concept for 
  quickly differentiating between controls
> >> > > in
> 
  >> > > the editor$,1rys interface. In applications designed for 
  sighted
> >> > > users, components are visually distinct: 
  buttons appear raised, text
> >> > > boxes appear inset, and 
  each item differs in some way that suggests
> >> > > 
  its
> >> > > intended function. Page Designer achieves this 
  effect auditorily. The
> >> > > application plays 
  programmatic sounds in parallel with voice output
> >> > > 
  to
> >> > > quickly identify both an object$,1rys type and 
  its value. So rather
> >> > > than speaking "OK button", the 
  editor speaks "OK" and plays a popping
> >> > > sound at the 
  same moment, effectively saving half the number of
> >> > > 
  syllables. Textboxes are associated with a tapping sound; picture
> 
  >> > > boxes
> >> > > are accompanied by the 
  sound of a camera shutter; the volume of a
> >> > > 
  radio
> >> > > button$,1rys sound varies depending its 
  selection
> >> > > state.<br><br>Visit
> 
  >> > > this link to download the application:&nbsp;
> 
  >> > > 
  http://here-i-am.sourceforge.net/downloads/Here-I-Am_Page-Designer1.zip<br>The
> 
  >> > > executable is named 
  here-i-am_page-designer.<br><br>Please have
> >> > 
  > patience
> >> > > with it.&nbsp; This is only a 
  beta version of the program.&nbsp;
> >> > > 
  Also,
> >> > > the interface is very different and takes 
  some getting used
> >> > > to.<br><br>i
> 
  >> > > hate making concessions for JAWS, but i$,1ryve changed 
  the
> >> > > navigation
> >> > > keys to 
  ensure my program doesn$,1ryt conflict.&nbsp; As before, the
> 
  >> > > navigation model arranges content into a hierarchy with 
  parent nodes
> >> > > corresponding to higher levels of 
  abstraction and child nodes
> >> > > corresponding to lower 
  levels of abstraction. To see more details of
> >> > > 
  an
> >> > > object, press spacebar. If at any point you 
  becomes lost, pressing
> >> > > Escape will move the 
  selection up one level of abstraction, revealing
> >> > > 
  a
> >> > > "bigger 
  picture".<br><br>Unfortunately, this program is still far
> 
  >> > > from
> >> > > the screen reader i 
  envision.&nbsp; This is just a self-voicing
> >> > > 
  application, and the objects do not correspond to actual objects on
> 
  >> > > the
> >> > > screen, so it probably lacks 
  much of the functionality to which you
> >> > > may
> 
  >> > > be accustomed.&nbsp; But i feel like i$,1rym slowly 
  getting
> >> > > closer.<br><br>Hope you enjoy 
  it,<br><br>dusty.......<br><br><br
> >> 
  > > /><hr
> >> > > />Help yourself to FREE 
  treats served up daily at the Messenger
> >> > > Caf,Ai. 
  <a
> >> > > 
  
href='http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline'
> 
  >> > > target='_new'>Stop by 
  today!</a></body>
> >> > > </html>
> 
  >> > -- 
> >> > Your life is like a penny. You're 
  going to lose it. The question is:
> >> > How do
> 
  >> > you spend it?
> >> >
> >> > John 
  Covici
> >> > covici@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'カ翰学ョf渇旛jxハ恭・xjリカ淌 
  ュ迥ヒ「ク・嘯カ・nX
> >> __________
> >> View the list's 
  information and change your settings at
> >> 
  http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>
> 
  >
> > 
  _________________________________________________________________
> > 
  Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You!
> > 
  http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
> 
> 
  __________
> View the list's information and change your settings 
  at
> http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> 
> 
  __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at 
  
> http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> 


  
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_________________________________________________________________
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