Jamal, Please send questions regarding policy, licensing and FSF opinion to a generic FSF mailing list or directly to someone in the parts of FSF who works on such things. I am not a licensing expert and there is no difference in our policies regarding such things in the accessibility arena and our more generic mainstream statements. I work on getting free software projects to include accessibility in their development and I try to find people to retrofit accessibility support into programs that do not comply with the accessibility API mostly on the Gnome desktop. I don't have any authority regarding FSF licensing policy nor do I spend much time thinking about it as we've people far more expert in these matters than I will ever be. So, sending me such inquiries is a misdirection of your query. As for a published opinion on Oracle v. Google, I don't know that anyone at FSF has written an opinion piece on the case yet. As a matter of course, though, we oppose all software patents and (of course) the enforcement thereof. Hence, I would assume that we oppose Oracle in this case but as I don't state opinion on any matters other than those explicitly regarding accessibility, you should ask someone in a less specific part of FSF. HH, cdh M, Jamal Mazrui wrote: > A few weeks ago, I looked on the FSF site for some kind of opinion on the > Oracle suit against Google over Android/Java, and was surprised not to find > one. FSF tends to have opinions on big issues in the field related to > software copyrights and patents. If FSF does have an opinion on this, would > you point us to a link? > > Also, did you ever get an authoritative answer on whether GNU will support > accessibility-related development projects that use library components that > are licensed under the Eclipse Public License? > > Jamal > > > On 10/11/2010 9:58 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: >> Oracle may not "own" mysql and definitely does not own the version forked >> from the code base into a separate line of development entirely outside of >> Oracle. >> >> Oracle is claiming that they "own" the mysql copyright. If *anyone* in the >> wild contributed as little as a single line of code to the project, even if >> they did so anonymously, they also own part of that copyright. Also, if >> anyone working at Sun had not signed an assignment of copyright agreement, >> they too own part of the copyrighted source code. Thus, although they claim >> they will change the license, they may not e ale to do so in a manner that >> would hold up in a courtroom. >> >> Oracle can add proprietary and very pretty UI elements that call into mysql >> to their heart's content. These will, knowing Oracle's track record, not be >> FLOSS and, also following Oracle's history, will, at best, probably be only >> partially accessible. >> >> The only accessibility engineers remaining at Oracle are Peter and the >> accessibility people working on OpenOffice, another FLOSS project that >> Oracle is trying to make proprietary. Regarding the office suite, Oracle can >> make a proprietary fork and stop contributing to the FLOSS version. To this >> end a group of people have banded together to form the Document Foundation >> and have rebranded OpenOffice.org as LibreOffice. We at FSF/GNU see >> LibreOffice accessibility as essential to the future of an accessible planet >> and will be involved at some level in the new fork. >> >> cdh >> >> On Oct 11, 2010, at 4:14 AM, Kerneels Roos wrote: >> >>> Hi Everyone, >>> >>> I read some blogs on the recent Oracle World and Java One conference held >>> by Oracle. It seems they are, as we expected, a much more business savvy >>> company than Sun was. The former Java One confernces were very much >>> developer minded, while the recent one presented by Oracle gave the >>> indication that they are far more business minded and are working >>> strategically towards set goals. >>> >>> Very interesting development is their plans for MySQL which they apparently >>> also own now, in particular their plans to develop very nice user >>> interfaces for managing MySQL databases so that there will be greater >>> adoption of it in the Windows + Visual Studio world. Their ideal would be >>> to have MySQL integrate directly with Visual Studio, but I'm digressing... >>> >>> Since Oracle wants to make profit mostly (or only) and maintain a nice >>> public profile, it would be up to the stake holders in Java Accessibility >>> to convince them that it is indeed in their best interest to give it a high >>> priority. If by reasoning about it we can come to the conclusion that there >>> is no real advantage for them in investing in furthering Java Accessibility >>> then another route needs to be perseued. Such another route might be an >>> open source development of the JAB, a third party development of the JAB. >>> >>> We want access to be free, but if for a small price you could get an up to >>> date JAB that makes Java extremely accessible then that is better than the >>> alternative of no, or out dated access. >>> >>> I believe that if one can convince a company nicely that accessibility is >>> important then they will do a good job at it, as aposed to it being a >>> legally enforced thing, or a pressured thing. I agree with another person >>> on this list, think it was Tylor, that asking people nicely to change their >>> web sites RE accessible captchas for example is far better than screaming >>> at them over email. All the more so if you can give them food for thought >>> in terms of numbers. >>> >>> If it's a better idea to have foundations for the blind interacting with >>> Oracle about this then we as the community need to first approach our local >>> and international foundations. There is so much that can be done, like >>> pettitions, fund raising, awareness, pressure from the general public, >>> pressure from M$, pressure from their clients that are far removed from >>> accessibility issues but that do have a morral concions. >>> >>> Java is a great language to program in if you are blind due to it's verbose >>> nature and well thought out standard libraries. Oracle's plans (to my best >>> judgement) for Java is long but over. They are also planning more JDK >>> releases by spreading future features over the various releases. On top of >>> that, there are millions of lines of legacy Java that will have to be >>> maintained for many years to come, so a career as a Java Programmer will >>> remain a good choice for blind programmers regardless, but it would be so >>> much better if it is certain that Oracle will strive to improve Java >>> accessibility onwards. >>> >>> So what would be the next step? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Kerneels >>> >>> >>> On 10/11/2010 3:11 AM, Stanzel, Susan - Kansas City, MO wrote: >>>> Hi Listers, >>>> >>>> I have not stepped into this until now. I would hope that needing >>>> government contracts in the United States would have some affect on all >>>> this. I have asked people about swing and I am told it isn't used very >>>> much because there is newer technology out there. I am not an experienced >>>> Java programmer so maybe the rest of you will know more than I do. I know >>>> we use Struts at my building for creation of web projects. If I have just >>>> made a fool of myself, it's not the first time and won't be the last. >>>> (grin). >>>> >>>> Susie Stanzel >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of The Elf >>>> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 7:08 PM >>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration, IMHO >>>> >>>> hey, this is my usual line, "beat them into submission" lol >>>> >>>> or hound,or pummel, or... >>>> >>>> elf >>>> Moderator, Blind Access Help >>>> Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises >>>> Specialists in customized computers and peripherals >>>> - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn! >>>> www.alacorncomputer.com >>>> proprietor, The Grab Bag, >>>> for blind computer users and programmers >>>> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Sina Bahram"<sbahram@xxxxxxxxx> >>>> To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 10:14 AM >>>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration, IMHO >>>> >>>> >>>>> Wow, it only took like 15 emails on the subject, but finally the voice of >>>>> reason has made itself known. >>>>> >>>>> Ken, I completely agree. Now is the time to pressure them into actually >>>>> not abandoning it. >>>>> >>>>> Take care, >>>>> Sina >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry >>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 1:10 AM >>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration, IMHO >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If this is true then it's not time to tell people to stay away. It's time >>>>> to get people to get active and start emailing and >>>>> calling them till they do support it. If we stay away we lose what >>>>> accessibility was there. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ken >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Storm Dragon >>>>> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 11:09 PM >>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration, IMHO >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I would not doubt it for one second. They dropped the ball on Linux >>>>> accessibility pretty much first thing when they took over Sun. >>>>> It's probably a good idea, if you have influence over software decisions, >>>>> to encourage companies, clients, and friends to stay far >>>>> far away from Oracle and their software. I was even going to get rid of >>>>> Open Office but fortunately the version used in Ubuntu is a >>>>> fork so not subject to them. unless, that is, they somehow manage to win >>>>> their evil attack on Google. If that happens, who knows who >>>>> they will attack next. Keep your fingers crossed, and maybe the open >>>>> source community will keep the Bridge going, Orca is still >>>>> alive and well after all. >>>>> Storm >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Registered Linux user number 508465: >>>>> http://counter.li.org/ >>>>> My blog, Thoughts of a Dragon: >>>>> http://www.stormdragon.us/ >>>>> Get yourself a Frostbox: >>>>> http://www.frostbitesystems.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, 2010-10-09 at 08:15 +0530, prateek aggarwal wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> oh know, >>>>> i wish its just a rumor. >>>>> if its ever going to be true, i'll be so said. >>>>> >>>>> regards, >>>>> prateek agarwal. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10/9/10, Jamal Mazrui<empower@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>> I heard from a good source today that Oracle has decided to discontinue >>>>>> support for the Java Access Bridge (and no alternative is planned). I >>>>>> would be glad to be convinced otherwise. If anyone has information >>>>>> regarding this topic, please share. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jamal >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ >>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> __________ >>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ >>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>>> >>>> __________ >>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>> >>>> __________ >>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kerneels Roos >>> Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998 >>> Skype: cornelis.roos >>> >>> "Common Sense" is not "Common Practice" . >>> >>> "The Strawberry Jam Law: >>> The wider you spread it, the thinner it gets..." >>> -- from the Java Specialist Newsletter, from a book on consulting. >>> >>> __________ >>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>> >> >> __________ >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >> __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind