Re: Commodo

  • From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 14:27:33 +0200

Yes, this doesn't mean robustness at all.

What you described means just a few unuseful features for me.

I never use indentation so I don't care about it. I also needed to switch off that "feature" of adding a } when using a { because it might be confusing sometimes. I use to forget to close a } very rarely, and I discover it by just running the program once if it happends.

Yes it might be useful for Python users, but I don't like python so I will probably not need it for this feature.

And by the way, when I mean accessible, I mean accessible with Windows 2k or XP, Jaws 6 (because that's what I use), and for the tasks I need.

I don't mean to be accessible under Linux, or other OS, or with another screen reader or other versions of Jaws, because I already said why I must use the version 6 of Jaws.

Oh yes, if I will be able to fix Jaws, or discover a better screen reader, or if Vista will become more accessible, Commodo might be very accessible with that software. Or.. who knows, maybe an optic nerv transplant could make it 100% accessible. :-)

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "jaffar" <jaffar@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: Commodo


Hi. If you haven't been able to try the latest version of komodo ide because of the lack of support from your jaws version, how can you say it is not robust? Like did you know that when you type an opening brace, it will autocomplete it with a closing one? Or that your code is automatically indented, sure a plus for those of us who write python guis, that you can navigate from your functions in your code with the f8, shift+f8 and ctrl+shift+f8 keys, that you can change a character from upper to lower case and vici versa with ctrl+u and ctrl+shift+u, that you can navigate to different blocks of code in your program, that you can increase or decrease the indentation of your lines of code? all these, i have tried out, and they work. Perhaps we have different views on what is robust, but i certainly feel that it is a good enough ide for one to achieve one's programming goals. Cheers!


----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: Commodo


Well, I don't need very specialized editors, but I do need very robust programs and I don't think Commodo is such a program.

It doesn't have even some simple features that I have in TextPad, which is a pretty old editor.

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "jaffar" <jaffar@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 4:52 AM
Subject: Re: Commodo


Hi. I have actually tried Komodo with window eyes 6.1 and found it to be very accessible. It is not a high level ide such as visual studio, not as feature rich and not as robust perhaps, but good enough for a user who doesn't need the extra bells and whistles that come along with modern ides these days. It is, i think, a very balanced ide, allowing for productivity and flexibility, yet answering to the needs of the conventional coder who wants and prefers to do things by hand. The only thing i would like in Komodo is the ability to build and debug, which is not present for now. It might be incorporated in the future versions, but i hope this need will be taken into consideration. If what you want is a middle ground ide with basic helpful features, yet not too many tools that can be somewhat of a clutter, then Komodo is for you. Cheers! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Commodo


I know you've mentioned this JAWS problem before.  It surprises me that
JAWS continues to be worse with special characters ever since JAWS 6. I
know that software sometimes takes a step back in an area while other
features are being added, but I would think that Freedom Scientific has to
correct such a problem for international customers.  What does it say
about the issue?

Jamal
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007, Octavian
Rasnita wrote:

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:25:07 +0200
From: Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Commodo

Jaws 7, 8, and probably 9 don't work well with any application if the users
need to use special chars in other languages, so it wouldn't be an
advantage, because I've seen that Commodo also miss some features, not only
accessibility features.

Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Leventhal" <aaronlev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: Commodo


> Hi Octavian,
>
> I just saw at the end of this that you are using JAWS 6. > Unfortunately > JAWS only started making Mozilla technologies accessible since > something
> like JAWS 7.1
>
> You ask if Firefox is the same. I would say no -- we (largely > myself) have
> put a large amount of effort specifically into making Firefox itself
> accessible. No such effort has yet gone into Komodo (note -- it's > spelled
> with a K and one M).
>
> It would be great to find out if more recent versions of JAWS (such > as the
> JAWS 9 beta) work better with Komodo.
>
> - Aaron
>
> Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have installed again Commodo and here is what I found:
>>
>> 1. If I press Insert+num pad minus in order to route the Jaws >> cursor to
>> the PC cursor, sometimes the menu is activated, but only sometimes.
>>
>> 2. I needed to use the Jaws cursor, because right after starting >> Commodo, >> the editor is not accessible. I expected to press Insert+Tab and >> hear
>> "edit", but instead I heard something more strange.
>>
>> 3. I opened the File menu, and I selected "New" and I pressed enter >> and >> in that moment I've seen that the new option has a submenu which is >> not >> announced by Jaws. Does Commodo need some special scripts which are >> not >> provided by Jaws 6? I am using Jaws 6 because the Eloquence from >> newer
>> versions of Jaws doesn't read the special chars correctly.
>>
>> 4. I chosen to create a new file and it appeared a list with file
>> formats, telling "Templates list Text 20 of 22, -85004040 of 0"... >> or a
>> closed number.
>>
>> I've noticed that the FruitBasket program made by Jamal with XUL >> works
>> the same, telling that garbage with minus 85000000 of 0.
>>
>> 5. After choosing "Perl file" and pressing enter, it created a new >> tab >> named "perl1.pl" or something like that. I cannot read the exact >> title of >> the tab, because I cannot use the Jaws cursor well in Commodo. If I >> route >> the Jaws cursor to the PC cursor, I see that the menus are >> activated.
>>
>> 6. Another problem I've seen is because If I just move the Jaws >> cursor, a >> menu seems to activate itself without needing any click. This is >> very
>> bad, because I can't read the screen with the Jaws cursor.
>> Anything I do, I cannot read the titles of tab pages with the Jaws
>> cursor.
>>
>> 7. Now in the editing area, if I press Insert+tab, instead of >> telling me >> "edit" like most text editors, it tells me a very long string which >> is
>> not nice at all".
>> Do I need to change the Windows Class of the editing area? I think >> I'll >> try this. (I also need to change the highlight color assignment, >> because
>> if I select a text in the editor, Jaws cannot read that text).
>>
>> 8. I've tried changing something in the file then save it. I've >> seen >> that the "Save as" window doesn't allow us choosing the encoding of >> the >> file (which is not very important to be right here) but it also >> don't >> allow us to choose the end of line format in which we want to save >> the >> file (Unix/Win/Mac), and this is important to be right here, at >> least for
>> me. This is not a bug, but just a missing feature.
>>
>> 9. Sometimes if I press Control+Home in the editing area in order >> to move
>> the cursor at the beginning of the file, Jaws tells me "File, Edit,
>> Code... the name of all the menus.
>> It seems that this happends because Jaws can't discover where is >> the PC >> cursor after pressing Control+S then escape. Now I can press the up >> or >> down arrows, control+Tab or shift+Control+tab, but nothing >> happends. Jaws
>> doesn't speak anything. I think I need to restart Commodo.
>> If I try to use the Jaws cursor and I move it faster up or down, >> Jaws
>> doesn't speak anything.
>>
>> 10. I've tried to delete the text word by word with >> control+backspace.
>> The words are deleted, but Jaws doesn't speak those words.
>>
>> 11. I've tried to read the status bar of the window with the Jaws >> cursor, >> because it is too much text there and I want to see the line and >> column >> number of the cursor, but I can't read the status bar neither, >> because
>> each time I press Control+left or right arrows, a menu seems to be
>> opened.
>> Now I've tried to see what's in that menu, because at a certain >> moment >> when moving the Jaws cursor with control+left or right, I hear >> "menu".
>> I've tried then using up and down arrows. I have also tried first
>> switching to the PC cursor, then using up or down, but with no >> luck. >> After doing that, I couldn't continue to read the text written in >> the
>> editing area. I couldn't even return to Outlook Express because I
>> couldn't read anything in this message I write right now. So I >> needed to
>> close Commodo a second time, then I was able to write you.
>>
>> 12. I've seen that message "minus 85 millions and something of 0" >> is read >> when using a combo box too. Too bad, especially that in combo boxes >> the
>> real number of the list elements is not read at all.
>>
>> 13. In the "Find" dialog (Control+F), the buttons don't have a >> hotkey >> defined, or at least Jaws cannot detect it if using Shift+Num pad >> 5.
>>
>> 14. Even if I press Control+F or Control+H for replace, the Window >> that
>> appear is always entitled "Find and replace". This can be confusing
>> sometimes.
>>
>> 15. I've tried to change some preferences from the Edit menu, but >> some >> elements are not very accessible because the text that describes >> them are
>> not read entirely.
>>
>> 16. After closing with Ok button that preferences window, now Jaws >> lost >> the focus again and I cannot read the text from the editor with the >> PC
>> cursor. So I need to close and reopen Commodo once more.
>>
>> 17. I like that Commodo has F8 and shift+F8 for jumping to the >> previous >> and next subroutine, but this can be done so easy with a find for >> "sub " >> then jumping around with F3 and Shift+F3 which is better known. A >> helpful
>> thing though. I hope it also offers the possibility of defining
>> bookmarks.
>>
>>
>> 18. Control+F8 for finding all functions could be nice if its >> interface >> would be better, but Jaws speaks so much garbage, that I would >> prefer to >> search the subroutines manually than in that list. And after >> displaying >> that list of functions (subroutines), I wasn't able to make it >> disappear >> with an escape, but I needed to choose a subroutine then press >> enter. >> Maybe the focus moved to that subroutine, but then I wasn't able to >> move >> the cursor from there, but first I needed to switch the focus to >> another
>> application then come back.
>>
>> 19. I've saved a file and Jaws lost again the focus. I've pressed >> for a >> few times some keys like control+Tab and others I don't remember >> and Jaws >> read for me some checkboxes without names. I've even seen a list of >> files >> and I pressed enter on one of them and Commodo told me that there >> is no >> such a file and asked me if I want to create it. Ok, I understand I >> might >> have been doing something wrong, but I wanted to read again that >> dialog
>> message but I couldn't do it and this is not ok.
>> Jaws was not reading anything, so I have chosen that I don't want >> to
>> create that file.
>>
>> 20. I couldn't see an easy way of defining more bookmarks like in >> TextPad
>> and this feature is very important for me.
>> I've seen other things like breakpoints and other things, but no >> hotkeys >> for creating a bookmark, deleting a bookmark, jumping to the >> previous
>> and next bookmark, and deleting all the bookmarks.
>> Isn't this possible with Commodo?
>>
>> Anyway, as you might have seen, Commodo is very hard accessible at >> least >> with Jaws 6 without special scripts for it, but even if it can be >> made to >> be more accessible, it doesn't have some features other editors >> have.
>>
>> Is Firefox same... "accessible"?
>>
>> Octavian
>>
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