Re: Cognos Accessibility with JAWS
- From: Dorene Cornwell <dorenefc@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:51:04 -0700
Let us know how that works.
I am not familiar with recent releases of Cognos specifically but a
long time ago I spent some time on a tool selection process looking at
several related products so I have a few thoughts:
--In general I am not crazy about work-arounds that depend on specific
visual interface characteristics because these can be subject to
change with even interim updates. I am also not familiar with the
hotspot option so I am definitely curious about results.
--It really does sound like as you suspect a programmer just forgot to
label something, I would definitely encourage you to get the problem
documented by Cognos tech support. Even if it cannot immediately be
fixed, having it on a problem list increases the chances that it can
be dealt with in an upcoming release. As you say, IBM has a good
history about accessibility. Since they acquired Cognos, that suggests
at least someone in the picture will be motivated to work on the
problem. Also, Cognos is a really mainstream tool and the kind of tool
that could be of very high value to people who suffer vision loss in
mid-career. So I am HOPING that helps line up more interest in fixing
the problem.
--SOMETIMES the configuration of some of those screens depends on
local decisions made at your site. After you check with Cognos / IBM
tech support, it might be worth checking if something about your local
site is obscuring the needed info.
--At some point I suppose there is also the JAWS scripts option, but
it really does sound to me like it's something the vendor needs to
fix.
Dorene Cornwell
Seattle WA
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Brent Neal <bneal@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> That might work.
> Thanks.
>
> Brent Neal
> 140 E 300 S
> Salt Lake City, UT 84111
>
> Programmer
> Phone: 801.526.9797
> Email: bneal@xxxxxxxx
>
>>>> Jim Bauer <holdsworthfan@xxxxxx> 9/24/2009 10:28 AM >>>
> Yes. It's not dependent on what JAWS sees; it blindly clicks a
> position in its most basic form. There are safeguards, but if you
> "defined a hotspot" with "app main window relative" positioning, you'd
> be fine.
>
> Jim
>
>
> "Brent Neal" <bneal@xxxxxxxx> wrote on Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:14:14
> -0600:
>
>>Hi Jim,
>>Thanks for the information. I went to the hotspotclicker website and read
>> through some of the information. Do you know if this would work on an icon
>> that JAWS cannot even seem to find?
>>
>>Brent Neal
>>140 E 300 S
>>Salt Lake City, UT 84111
>>
>>Programmer
>>Phone: 801.526.9797
>>Email: bneal@xxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>>>>> Jim Bauer <holdsworthfan@xxxxxx> 9/24/2009 9:55 AM >>>
>>Hotspot Clicker will get you up and running in the shortest amount of
>>time and without you having to sit in front of your favorite text
>>editor, testing and debugging JAWS script code. <G>
>>
>>Borrow a pair of eyes while you position the JAWS cursor over the
>>appropriate items. You can choose to position relative to either
>>screen height/width or the dimentions of the application main
>>window.
>>
>>"Brent Neal" <bneal@xxxxxxxx> wrote on Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:41:16
>>-0600:
>>
>>>With further sighted assistance I have better information.
>>>In insertable objects there are 3 tabs. The screen comes up in the
>>> default tab which is source. If the sighted user clicks on one of the other
>>> tabs either data items or Toolbox than JAWS will read what is in it but I
>>> cannot get JAWS to find the other tabs. This seems like such a simple
>>> problem but it makes it unusable for me. It is probably just because the
>>> developer did not label the tabs so that JAWS knows they are there. We have
>>> the same problem with the tabs in the next part of the screen which is
>>> called the Page Explorer.
>>>Let me know if you have any other suggestions.
>>>Thank You
>>>
>>>Brent Neal
>>>140 E 300 S
>>>Salt Lake City, UT 84111
>>>
>>>Programmer
>>>Phone: 801.526.9797
>>>Email: bneal@xxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Dorene Cornwell <dorenefc@xxxxxxxxx> 9/24/2009 12:45 AM >>>
>>>This is going to sound flip, but have you tried Ctrl Tab ?
>>>
>>>Good luck
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>>On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Brent Neal <bneal@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> The 3 icons I cannot access are actually called tabs in the
>>>> documentation.
>>>> They are referred to as the Toolbox tab, Data Items tab and Source tab
>>>> in
>>>> the Insertable Objects Pane.
>>>> Is there a special way to access tabs?
>>>>
>>>> Brent Neal
>>>> 140 E 300 S
>>>> Salt Lake City, UT 84111
>>>>
>>>> Programmer
>>>> Phone: 801.526.9797
>>>> Email: bneal@xxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>>>> Dorene Cornwell <dorenefc@xxxxxxxxx> 9/23/2009 1:16 PM >>>
>>>> Brent
>>>>
>>>> In cases like this, I am a great believer in making the Cognos tech
>>>> support staff earn their keep. Web-based report-writing is too
>>>> important a function. Cognos is too important a product;
>>>> decisionmakers for organizations of all sizes SHOULD be considering
>>>> accessibility in their purchasing decisions and Cognos should not be
>>>> allowed to slide and palm all the work off on you or your IT shop. You
>>>> are basically beta-testing and intentionally or not helping them with
>>>> necessary development work.
>>>>
>>>> I think the hotspot clicker idea also sounds interesting. What
>>>> screenreader and version of JAWS are you using? I have not read all
>>>> the wonders that JAWS 10 is supposed to work with dynamic updates of
>>>> the screen, but I would think to look there.
>>>>
>>>> Keep us all posted. This is important work!
>>>>
>>>> DoreneC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Jim Bauer <holdsworthfan@xxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Alas, I know nothing of Cognos itself, though I'll write anyway with a
>>>>> couple *helpful* bits about your problem(s):
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure Geoff C is composing a thesis extolling the virtues of
>>>>> Hotspot Clicker, so I'll beat him to it. <grin>. Any time you're
>>>>> talking about coordinate-based positioning in areas that have the
>>>>> potential for going dynamic, it's definitely the easiest, most
>>>>> customizable option.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are the sectioned-off elements you seek actual windows or just
>>>>> "chunks" of information written to one large window that represents
>>>>> the screen area?
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S. If you're unaware, Hotspot Clicker can be found at
>>>>> http://www.hotspotclicker.org
>>>>> "Brent Neal" <bneal@xxxxxxxx> wrote on Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:25:21
>>>>> -0600:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Here at work I was put on the data warehouse team because they thought
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> could learn Cognos and create Cognos reports. So far Cognos on the
>>>>>> web has
>>>>>> been quite accessible accept we cannot seem to get to the Source,
>>>>>> Toolbox
>>>>>> and Data Items icons which are in the center part of the screen. I
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> sighted assistance in labeling the icons but JAWS still does not
>>>>>> recognize
>>>>>> them. Is there any way to get around this problem? If not I will not
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> able to create the reports.
>>>>>>Also the screen is divided into 3 sections and I need to find a way to
>>>>>> switch between sections. They are not frames or tables. Does anyone
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> how to do this?
>>>>>>Is anyone else using Cognos with JAWS?
>>>>>>Any help will be appreciated.
>>>>>>Thank You
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Brent Neal
>>>>>>140 E 300 S
>>>>>>Salt Lake City, UT 84111
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Programmer
>>>>>>Phone: 801.526.9797
>>>>>>Email: bneal@xxxxxxxx
>>>>>
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