Re: Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash
- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 15:21:14 +0300
Yes but we had this discussion before and I shown that the design of that site
has not a commercial quality.
Helpful for the blind and maybe other persons, but not appropriate for
promoting a real business.
Yes there are companies specialized for web design that have many employees and
some of them could do just a part of the work while others could specialize in
other fields, however there are very few such companies in some countries, so
the possible oportunities of getting a job in one of them by a blind are very
few.
On the other hand, I've seen that those companies requires much more from a
perspective employee, from knowing PHP, Javascript, knowing a foreign language
like english or french, doing graphics in a certain program like Photoshop or
Photopaint, considering Flash knowledge as an advantage, and other things.
Well, in that case a blind web designer has almost 0 chances of getting a job,
because not only that he cannot do all the things, but he cannot do the things
considered an advantage either.
I haven't seen any job announcement that asks for knowing the World Wide Web
Consortium recommendations, and knowing HTML is something very normal.
Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: John Greer
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash
I think what is happening here is people here are lumping web designer
together as a single profession. When you are working for a company, there is
usually a web design department. But, that web design department consists of
many other positions, graphics design, lay out design, concept design, data
entry, coding etc. etc. When working for a company in some cases more than
just one person makes the web page happen. The question is can a blind person
do every aspect of web design? The sad but true answer is no. But in some
cases as I said there is more than one person involved in the design of a
website. Web designer is not the only profession involved in the creation of a
web page. The person that does the graphic designed can also be called as a
general label a web designer if he or she does it for web content. The same
goes for the person that just dreams up the concept of how it should look and
work. Yep even a concept designer can have the general lable of web designer
if he or she does it for web content. That's right web designer is just a
general label people will use to explain what they do, but there is more than 1
profession involved in web design. Now can a blind person also be a web
designer, the answer could also be yes. For example Inthane is considered the
web designer for the grab bag site. If there are any graphics on Inthane's
site the person who designed the graphic for the site is also considered one of
the web designers for Inthane's site.
----- Original Message -----
From: Octavian Rasnita
To: programmingblind@freelistsorg
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:04 AM
Subject: Re: Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash
Yes, a blind person can be a part of a team of web designers, because he
can do some things.
But he cannot be a web designer, because in that case he would need to make
what an entire team of web design does.
The designer should not just place the images or other web page elements,
but he also need to create the javascript that replaces the images with other
images when hovering with the mouse on them, or align the images in terms of
pixels not by their margins, but sometimes by on the elements contained on some
images, and when the layout doesn't look nice he should crop the images, or add
some transparent margins, but if someone else should do this, than we can say
that somebody else should do the biggest part of the job, while the blind web
designer should only type some html attributes.
Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter op 't Hof
To: programmingblind@freelistsorg
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash
Hi,
The only reason to have any luck in webdesign as a blind person is to use
a content-managementsystem, so the images can be placed or by
users/administrators/publishers or be placed by the blind person self with
exact directions where to put the images whcich are design by an other person.
The same goes for forms or charts.
In my current job i do some of the functional design so there are many
more ways to do a propper job in this field.
I do not want to state that a blind person can do it allone.
He/she has to be part of a team.
Greetings,
Peter op 't Hof.
----- Original Message -----
From: Octavian Rasnita
To: programmingblind@freelistsorg
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash
If somebody cannot even crop a simple image, that person cannot call
himself a web designer.
Even a kid can adjust some image or table sizes in an html document by
setting some attributes in some HTML elements, but this doesn't mean that the
person that can do this is a web designer.
But maybe we speak about different terms. :-)
See, in my native language, design means something related to visual
things, like clothing design, graphic art. There are even design faculties that
teach the students how to draw, how to do other visual arrangements that cannot
be done by the blind. On the other hand, there are no faculties specialized
only on "web design".
And something else... The word "design" is very closed to the word
"desen" in my language, and desen means "drawing", so when I hear about design,
I understand that the person that does the design need to be able to draw, to
paint, to do graphics in general.
And another thing. If somebody should check and recheck and recheck the
work of a web designer in order to see if what he done looks fine, because he
cannot do it, then I don't think that person can name himself a web designer.
And by the way, I would like to see a good looking site made by a blind
if there is such a thing. Of course, not good looking and friendly for the
blind, but good looking for the sighted users perspective. Is there such a
thing? If yes, then please show me, because until then I won't believe that a
blind person can work as a web designer.
Thanks.
Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: inthaneelf
To: programmingblind@freelistsorg
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash
for that the company has a graphics designer, someone that
specializes in such things, though with the programs I recommended to Marvin he
can reliably size and place graphics on a web page, and I believe it was on the
old programming list, the same place that we had this discussion last time.
in some places and some smaller companies one person does the
graphics and the web design, in other places and larger companies the graphics
designer and the web designer are two different people and work in tandem on
something like this.
I don't know about slide shows, I don't remember if that was
mentioned by him directly or not, but I do know that folks are building games
in flash for the blind, go to the site I gave and look around, you will find
them.
and it may be a case as with power point, once one is sure one has
the proper materials for a PP presentation, one can construct a slide show in
it. I have done so, though it was a long time back so remember working in it,
and yes, I remember having to work double hard and taking the maximum amount of
time that we were given for the project, but I did it, and the project got me a
B, so I think I did alright.
no, we can't yet work with graphics editing and/or enhancing directly
yet teddy, but that's not always the case in the world, and stress the not
always... as I mentioned above.
regards,
inthane
. For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and
Links to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
. to be able to view a simple programming project in several
programming languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Octavian Rasnita
To: programmingblind@freelistsorg
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:33 AM
Subject: Re: Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash
Where did he spoke?
I am curious how can he create/crop/modify the images, or how can
he create the graphics on a Flash annimation and how he can verify if what he
done is ok.
Where can I read about that?
Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: inthaneelf
To: programmingblind@freelistsorg
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash
here we go with this again, *sigh* we have had a professional web
designer out here, who was and is blind... invited by James homme, and he
spoke long and straight forward about this...
later,
inthane
. For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs,
and Links to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me
at:
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
. to be able to view a simple programming project in several
programming languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Octavian Rasnita
To: programmingblind@freelistsorg
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash
Web site development could mean very many things, so they can
tell you to do many things that are absolutely inaccessible for a blind.
It could mean server side programming, client side programming,
database development, server and network administration, and these are
accessible, but it could also mean web design which is not accessible, or so
low accessible that it would not help any blind person to become a professional
web designer.
Discrimination means very many things also. Nothing could exist
without beeing discriminatory for some persons.
For the blind perspective, something absolutely not
discriminatory would be something which has the same accessibility level for
everyone, no matter if they can see or not.
In your case, if the other sighted persons would be able to do
what that program requires, without using the display, it wouldn't be
discriminatory, but it couldn't be that way, because all the sighted persons
think that "sighted is normal", while "blind is not normal".
In this case, you could ask them to allow you not to follow the
classes that requires using the mouse, because you cannot use a mouse.
If the professors or other students would be able to do what
you need to do without a mouse but only with the keyboard, than I think you
would be able to do it also.
Forcing a blind computer programmer to use a mouse could mean
discrimination.
Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: marvin hunkin
To: programmingblind@freelistsorg
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 7:24 AM
Subject: Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash
Hi.
well, next year looking at doing the diploma in information
technology, website development.
a couple of challenges i have, is that a couple of units, i
probably will not be able to do, as one is to use advanced and basic features
of adobe photoshop, to crop, manipulate images, and create 2d and 3d animation,
using adobe flash, as part of my major project.
Now, the National Traning Information System, which is
governed by a national curriculum, for tafe across Australia, and comes from
the department of education, canberra.
now, as i will have trouble being deemed competent, because
jaws, will not work with this software, as a core part of the course, and i
have spoken to my disability office and the main lecturer, who organises the
learning curriculum and talks to other lecturers.
they will be using adobe photo shop, adobe flash.
i know, i could probably use the flash development kit, but
the major challenge is the graphics side of things. So they are willing to
bend, in their curriculum, as they said i would have an advantage, if i had
sighted help to crop, edit and manipulate the objects.
so, got any tips, tricks, or any work arounds for that, or is
this a dissability discrimination act complaint, that might change their mind
and bend to accomodate, not just me, but another vision impaired friend of mine
is doing the same diploma with new south wales tafe, as this is a national
curriculum, and has been rolled out as the new training package for the past 12
months.
if you can let me know, how to get round this problem, as the
other subjects, i should be able to use php, editor, my sql database, visual
studio.net 2005, for the asp stuff, etc.
if anyone has had the same problem or situation, let me know
asap.
having a meeting soon to review what i have done this year
for certificate iv in website development.
cheers marvin.
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