I suggest beginning with something short, so we can discuss without having had
time to pre-read:
Perhaps “in praise of laziness"
http://monumenttotransformation.org/atlas-of-transformation/html/l/laziness/in-praise-of-laziness-mladen-stilinovic.html
See you all tonight
Connie
On 16 Mar 2016, at 1:47 PM, ThomasWilliamSmith <smith.william.tom@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hey all,
Sorry I can't make it tonight, but enjoying reading the thread here.
Looking forward to hearing what comes out of the meeting.
Cheers,
Tom
On Wednesday, 16 March 2016, Benjamin Forster <benjamin.mforster@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:benjamin.mforster@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Yeah, I agree- gift subsumed for sure. TBC.
But to throw out another tangent, which that original article raised for me
by way of reference to Proudhon. I was thinking about David Harvey and others
who point to the defence of private property as one of the central functions
of a neoliberal governmentally. The market must be free, and property and
monetary system must be secured, policed... Does this not give Proudhon's
attack on the very foundations of property a new relevancy. He has been so
heavily attacked and dismissed by marxists, but I find myself increasingly
interested in his What is Property?.
His ten propositions expanded in the book -
1. Property is impossible, because it demands Something for Nothing.
2. Property is impossible because wherever it exists Production costs more
than it is worth.
3. Property is impossible, because, with a given capital, Production is
proportional to labor, not to property.
4. Property is impossible, because it is Homicide.
5. Property is impossible, because, if it exists, Society devours itself.
6. Property is impossible, because it is the Mother of Tyranny.
7. Property is impossible, because, in consuming its Receipts, it loses them;
in hoarding them, it nullifies them; and in using them as Capital, it turns
them against Production.
8. Property is impossible, because its power of Accumulation is infinite, and
is exercised only over finite quantities.
9. Property is impossible, because it is powerless against Property.
10. Property is impossible, because it is the Negation of equality.
I would love to revisit his thinking.
On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 12:29 PM, Marco Cuevas-Hewitt <birdsong703@xxxxxxxxx
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','birdsong703@xxxxxxxxx');>> wrote:
*gifts
On 16 March 2016 at 12:27, Marco Cuevas-Hewitt <birdsong703@xxxxxxxxx
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','birdsong703@xxxxxxxxx');>> wrote:
Skepticism is good, and they're good points you raise!
Was only a matter of time before Uncle Karl made an appearance!
Ah, but one's time volunteering is also a gift. Doesn't have to be tangible
goods. Frontyard's residency model is also a gift economy. There's an
exchange, but it's not a rational calculation, as in commodity relations. In
a functioning gift economy, the building of community solidarity, rather than
self-interest is the highest aim.
Here's a practical application of the gift economy by North American
anarchists:
http://www.sproutdistro.com/catalog/zines/organizing/the-really-really-free-market-instituting-the-gift-economy/
<http://www.sproutdistro.com/catalog/zines/organizing/the-really-really-free-market-instituting-the-gift-economy/>.
On money... I was fascinated recently to learn of the approach to money in
some remote Aboriginal communities... it's still money, but subordinated to
traditional gift relations (I guess you could say corporate philanthropy is
the exact inverse: gift economics subsumed to money. According to one guy
interviewed: "We don't value it as money. It's like an aid. Growing up as a
child, I went to school and learnt wat the value of money is, but in our
culture, in our communities, there's not much value for money. It just moves
around. Yeah, and if you don't move it around, well then you get ostracised
from your family. You've gotta move it around... So if I've got money in my
pocket, I've gotta give it away sometimes, and yeah, maybe later down the
track, that money comes back, and it just goes in a continuous circle. But if
I needed a drink for tomorrow, I'd save myself 20 dollars or 50 dollars or
100 dollars, you know? But if I didn't save that, then I have to go back to
that circle and wait for that arrow or find that arrow... You can wait for
the arrow or you can hurry the arrow up. You go and see that person and make
the arrow get to you straight away. The arrow's just a person or someone or a
community member that's got food or got money. Yeah, and if you want it, you
go to that person. Or sometimes you can wait and not worry about it, and the
arrow will come back around to you... Obligation, respect. It's just the way,
the way of life, you know? The circle of life".
Gives move by definition, enriching the community as a whole. Monetary wealth
accumulates in individual bank accounts, serving only that individual. Shit
doesn't and never has "trickled down".
TBC tonight =)
...
On 16 March 2016 at 12:05, Benjamin Forster <benjamin.mforster@xxxxxxxxx
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','benjamin.mforster@xxxxxxxxx');>> wrote:
Nice article - I am curious though as when he talks of 'a society whose
highest values would be "the joy of giving in public, the delight in generous
artistic expenditure, the pleasure of hospitality in the public or private
feast.' I am reminded of the current culture of philanthropy - where social
and moral capital is accrued by the 'gifting' of support, but that that
position is only accessible to those who are of extreme wealth. Kaldor comes
to mind and philip Keir within the australian arts sector - they are 'good'
people, whereas the unpaid vollunteers and interns are never mentioned. I
guess I am highly sceptical of this - does it not the gift economy then start
to mirror marx's sentiments on money - “Money is the supreme good, therefore
its possessor is good.” and “I am brainless, but money is the real brain of
all things and how then should its possessor be brainless? Besides, he can
buy clever people for himself, and is he who has power over the clever not
more clever than the clever?” How do you escape this selfish selflessness and
the continued empowerment and aggrandising of those you have above those who
have not?
On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Marco Cuevas-Hewitt <birdsong703@xxxxxxxxx
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','birdsong703@xxxxxxxxx');>> wrote:
P.S. On the concept of the gift economy, I like where David Graeber is
heading with this: http://www.freewords.org/graeber.html ;
<http://www.freewords.org/graeber.html>
On 9 March 2016 at 22:03, Marco Cuevas-Hewitt <birdsong703@xxxxxxxxx
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','birdsong703@xxxxxxxxx');>> wrote:
Thanks Ben! Hi everyone!
Yups, Wednesday the 16th works for me. Looking forward to it, and I think the
idea to leave the first night open for sharing ideas is a good one.
How did MOST go? I hope to make it to Frontyard this weekend, and perhaps
squeeze in a residency in what remains of March. Depends on how my job sitch
pans out. BTW Clare, the folks at my community garden haven't gotten back to
me about the compost bins yet unforch.
Shall we kick off some discussion about life beyond capitalism on this list?
What are some alternatives to money? to the commodity form? to wage slavery?
Cheers,
Marco
On 7 March 2016 at 13:21, Benjamin Forster <benjamin.mforster@xxxxxxxxx
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','benjamin.mforster@xxxxxxxxx');>> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I have had an unexpected commitment pop up for the 10th of this month that I
cannot get out of - so Clare has proposed that we shift the first reading to
next Wednesday 16th of March from 7.30 - 9pm so that we can all be present.
Does this work for everyone? If not, I can Skype in and someone else can take
on the role of facilitating the initial conversation. Thoughts?
Also, if you want to email through any reading suggestions I will try and
make them available here on the night as digital files / print outs.
My thought is that we will use the first reading night to share our
collective suggestions for reading, read excerpts and decide how we want to
proceed, what interests us.
Also - we can use this list to have an extended conversation before and after
the reading nights.
Read soon,
Benjamin
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