Hi I have been following the thread about suggestions on what information should, or better yet, could be included with the questions asked. The suggestions are good ones, in general. The suggestions, whether we like it or not, require some level of knowledge. That made me sit back and think. Think about what level of users we have in this group and what level of these users is the group intended to address. Well, in my opinion, the users in this group fall into four broad and general categories. First is the Beginner. This is the person that just got a computer, didn't build it, and when that person turned it on (or a person that set it up for them turned it on) they discover a box. A magic box that just did things, Lord knows how or why. Maybe it scared and terrified them, maybe it fascinated them and they knew they found their niche in life, or maybe it was no big deal, just kind of a cute machine that may help them in their daily life, or job. The commonality to all at this point is they knew nothing about the machine. Lets face it folks, we all, and I mean ALL, started at this point. Conversation about computers may be another language to them. Version of an OS, what the heck is an OS, what does it stand for, where do you find out the version of it, the help files are nothing more then a puzzle with no picture to help connect the pieces together. (Hope I am painting a good picture here if maybe a little extreme). So, due to the inner workings of the human being, some of us will and have progressed up through the various categories at different rates of learning. Maybe a helpful person started to show us how it worked and maybe they introduced us to the group, set us up in the group or in time we found the group on our own. In any case, the person is here and here because they want to learn for whatever motivations. Second is the person that has learned something. (They fall in the area from beginner to middle of the road) They are using the computer and still have questions about the computer, an application, what makes it tick, questions about problems of any sort, questions about how and why it works. They are more knowledgeable then the beginner, yet still have traits of a novice. The magic is not so magical anymore. Conversations in computereeeeezzzzzzeeeeee are not totally mystifying. They can converse and understand somewhat more then basic stuff. They may have built themselves a computer. They may be taking classes, their climbing the ladder of knowledge in the area of computing. They kind of know their way around a computer and some applications. They are using it in their personal life and/or jobs. They may or may not be seeking a career in some field related directly to computers. They are still learning, yet they have gotten their wings or just about to. They may be of help to the first category, yet they still need help. They also have the desire to share some of their ability and knowledge with others. Third is the person has learned quite a bit. (They fall in the area from middle of the road to expert) Their questions about computers are getting less, they have a good deal of knowledge about computers, and/or applications, networks, systems, programming (hardware, software), security, system analysis's, Hardware and software designers. They can write (program) code very well. They are using the puter extensively, in their life and/or jobs. They are the ones that friends and co-workers come to for help. They may have jobs as a computer technician, network administrator, computer businesses of their own, up to and including elite programmers. They may have taken off in a specific direction in the computer field(s). They are very knowledgeable but usually are not the experts that are creating the next generation of computer gismos. They could be running the computer system for small to medium businesses or in the upper field of computers in a large organization, but are usually not (but could be) the CEO's of the computer departments of these large organizations. At least not yet anyway. They may have (now days) degrees in the computer fields with experience behind them. They seek answers and solutions on their own and supervise others in their field. They may have the desire to teach others, guide them, share some knowledge with them. Some do not. Fourth group is the expert to elite experts. They have forgotten more about computers than most will know. (like me) They are the movers and shakers in the computer industry of today. They know computers as well as they know themselves, if not better. They could (and in the beginning, they did) design, build the world wide Internet, (equipment, hardware and software, program, etc, etc) all by themselves. As far as hacking (today's definition goes) there is NOT a system they could not get into. They may be spending their own time in computers. It is their life, their love, their wife or husband, their existence as a person. They are the Einstein's of computing. Well if you're still with me. The question now becomes, what category does this group target, mainly address. For me, a clue comes in the form of the motto (for a lack of better term) of the group, which is quoted quite often and very much of late. That is "The only stupid question is the question that is not ask". To me that says the group is targeting the beginner category. That is the person who has just turned on the box and is awed by the magic within. So I beseech you all to be understanding and forgiving if most do not include the suggestions you have suggested in their questions and emails. They may not be aware of where to go in the menu to find the version of the OS, application, etc., etc., some who know will forget. Some do not know about programs like Belarc, for example. I have witnessed many telling others in here where to go to down load it and how to use it. Weed out those who do not know and help them to learn. Lets face the facts, even the experts in here do not always comply with the suggestions made in here on all the things to be included in a question. I also beseech the beginners not to take suggestions, or attitudes, (if any) personal. Forgiveness goes a long way and will facilitate the learning process not to mention the atmosphere in the group. Remember we are all human and are not always at our best. The beginners usually read all the messages and may get lost if help is written above their understanding and learning may suffer a minor set back. A post asking for clarification would go a long ways and many will be glad to explain it less complicated terms, even step by step if that is what it takes. Ask till you understand, you may be just one question away from an ahhhh hawwwwww (I got it) moment. I have seen it in here many a time, so I know it is done, I know everyone is capable. I am and was one of those that need things explained to me in a step-by-step manner and in simple easy to understand terminology. Life is what happens in between plans. Virus free email by Norton's This message is intended for the sole use of the individual and/or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee, or authorized to receive this on behalf of the addressee, you are hereby notified that you may not use, copy, disclose, or distribute to anyone this message or any part thereof. If you have received this in error, please immediately advise the sender by e-mail and delete this information. 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