[pasmembers] Re: Night Sky Training Event - Your input is requested
- From: L Phx <lphxaz@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:28:16 +0200
and also people without a telescope can practice with binoculars. even
inexpensive binocs with a basic adaptor and tripod can show a lot of
objects (e.g. Pleiades, Hyades, Orion nebula, Lagoon nebula, Andromeda
galaxy, etc). and the person can even show these objects at star parties,
to show people "see all these cool objects you can see even with simple
binoculars?" there are guidebooks for finding objects with binoculars.
Phil Harrington's book (that I already mentioned) lists binocular objects
too. and in the library you can find several books called "The Urban
Astronomer" with info about easy-to-find objects. just because something
is easy for *us* to find, doesn't make it less amazing when we tell people
about it at a star party. it's not just *what* we show but what we tell
them about it. a good view of the Andromeda galaxy or the Orion or Lagoon
nebula (even through binoculars) and a good explanation of what they are
seeing, can be more educational for the public than a faint galaxy that we
can just manage to see with averted vision.
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 2:17 PM, L Phx <lphxaz@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> ok, a few comments.
>
> 1) what do we mean by "finding objects in the night sky"? what level are
> we talking about? are we talking about being able to identify the
> constellations? or are we talking about - people who can identify the
> constellations and the closest naked-eye star for a DSO, but are not able
> to star-hop from there to the DSO, or to be sure they are looking at the
> right object. one suggestion was "get a planisphere" but I can tell you,
> if someone doesn't recognize the constellations yet a planisphere would not
> help, and for star-hopping to a DSO from the nearest naked-eye star a
> planisphere would not help either. we need to determine what type of help
> people need (whether they need help in learning the constellations, or in
> finding DSO's once they get there) in order to direct our efforts
> correctly. some people might need one type of help and some might need the
> other.
>
> 2) yes, of course more practice is needed, it's not a matter of a one-hour
> lesson and then everyone will know how to find all the Messier objects with
> their eyes closed. but the goal of the training sessions would be to give
> people guidelines, and then they would go home and practice till they are
> expert.
>
> 3) a dark sky site is *not* the place to do this. why? because if
> someone has only learned how to identify the constellations and/or find a
> certain DSO under ideal conditions, that will not help them when we are
> giving a star party under light-polluted conditions at PVCC on 32nd St or
> any other public star party. this practice needs to be done under "real
> world" conditions, e.g. at PVCC on 32nd St. then if the person also wants
> to find DSO's under a dark sky it will be a piece of cake.
>
> 4) there is a book called "The Year Round Messier Marathon" that shows how
> to find all the Messier objects with a telrad.
> http://www.amazon.com/Year-Round-Messier-Marathon-Field-Guide/dp/0943396549.
> we might want to buy one for the club, and lend it out to members.
>
> 5) there are other books that give guided tours for star-hopping, as well
> as interesting info about the objects. that is the best solution for "ok I
> found it, now what do I tell people about it?" two good books: "Star
> Watch" by Phil Harrington
> http://www.amazon.com/Star-Watch-Astronomers-Observing-Celestial/dp/0471418048and
> "Celestial Sampler" by Sue French
> http://www.amazon.com/Celestial-Sampler-Small-Scope-Starlit-Stargazing/dp/1931559287.
> there are many other books of course, but these focus on cool facts about
> "easy" beginner objects, as well as how to find them, and what they will
> look like when you do find them. you can also go to the library and get a
> few books and read them and take notes.
>
> 6) also don't forget Prof Jim Kaler's "Stars" website
> http://stars.astro.illinois.edu/sow/sowlist.html with cool facts about
> naked-eye stars that you can tell people about even without a telescope.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 2:18 AM, Rick Cunningham <phxf1fan@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> I am definately interested in this. My knowledge is all self taught and
>> honestly very incomplete. This will be an excellent training tool.
>> On Jan 10, 2013 11:56 AM, "AT" <atuk@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Very timely subject. I suspect that as Tim suggested and Eric seconded,
>>> plus Terri's input, there are many, including my self-taught self, that
>>> could use some hands on training. We are fortunate to have wonderful
>>> equipment that can find rare and beautiful objects, and we even learn the
>>> general quadrant to search in so that when the GPS is distracted we have a
>>> clue and can realign. ****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> I will be the first to admit that I learn very little at public star
>>> parties because I do the same thing over and over, punch in object, go to
>>> object and try to see through the light pollution. ****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> This holiday season was a loss for viewing with company, clouds, rain
>>> and colds. The night that the temperature dropped to below freezing the
>>> sky was finally clear, the company was leaving the next day, and they
>>> wanted to see Jupiter, so we did, plus several other objects. We viewed
>>> until early morning, the sky was clear. ****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Since that beautiful night here in Anthem the clouds have rolled through
>>> on a regular basis and the colds continue to circulate through family
>>> members.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> When all this is cleared up and we are no longer contagious I would like
>>> to be included in this training event.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Albert****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> *From:* pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>>> pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Tim Jones
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 09, 2013 11:41 PM
>>> *To:* pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> *Subject:* [pasmembers] Re: Night Sky Training Event - Your input is
>>> requested****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> I agree with Sam here. Especially since I already do this for most
>>> visitors to our outreach and viewing events because they almost all ask
>>> "that" question -"how do you know where to look?"****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> To Eric, I agree that pointers and guidance are useful ( otherwise,
>>> Terri would have no students), but we need to make sure that finding things
>>> is a skill learned through doing, not listening to others and that skill
>>> takes years to become good.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad****
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:15 PM, insanas@xxxxxxx wrote:****
>>>
>>> We have so many cancelled star parties because of rain, clouds, wind,
>>> etc.. I hate to set up a new star party just for this topic. I would be
>>> happy to take one hour of a regular public star party to work with new pas
>>> members who want to learn the night sky. I would show them star charts,
>>> planispheres, messier handouts, telrad charts, setting cirlces,
>>> constellations charts, sky and telescope planet charts, etc... Once the
>>> newbies see how an object is found, they can try to find the next object
>>> and I would help them if they get lost. Anyway, spending one hour at a
>>> public star party saves setting up a whole separate star party. Take care,
>>> Sam ****
>>>
>>> ****
>>>
>>> ****
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Eric Steinberg <eric@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: pasmembers <pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Wed, Jan 9, 2013 5:43 pm
>>> Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Night Sky Training Event - Your input is
>>> requested****
>>>
>>> Tim, your point is well taken - you can only learn it ultimately by****
>>>
>>> doing it. Yet I think there is some validity to the idea. Though it****
>>>
>>> comes naturally to some of us, others have some difficulty making****
>>>
>>> overall sense of the sky even with a planisphere, and may not even know****
>>>
>>> where to start.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Eventually, those with an interest will have to do exactly what you say,****
>>>
>>> but we can help with some basic explanations, like how to use the****
>>>
>>> planisphere, the idea of star-hopping or things like the precession of****
>>>
>>> the stars and the celestial equatorial/polar concept. That along with****
>>>
>>> some hands-on demos might get people kick-started to do their own****
>>>
>>> learning.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> JM2C****
>>>
>>> Eric****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----****
>>>
>>> From: pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx****
>>>
>>> [mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?>]
>>> On Behalf Of Tim Jones****
>>>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 3:03 PM****
>>>
>>> To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx****
>>>
>>> Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Night Sky Training Event - Your input is****
>>>
>>> requested****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> While I appreciate the intent behind this, the only way to learn the****
>>>
>>> night sky is to get out under it and look up. A session here or there****
>>>
>>> really is not going to help.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Imagine one of your music students that you only see 2-3 times a year****
>>>
>>> because their schedule doesn't allow them to practice the instrument****
>>>
>>> more often. Just how quickly do you think they would learn to master****
>>>
>>> the instrument? Learning the night sky is very much like learning to****
>>>
>>> play an instrument. While a bit of guidance will help keep the student****
>>>
>>> on the proper track, it only practicing regularly that results in the****
>>>
>>> student learning to play the instrument.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> My recommendation for learning the sky - get a Planisphere (either an****
>>>
>>> app or a real one) and spend evenings looking at the sky and learning****
>>>
>>> the lay of the land (so to speak). You don't even need a telescope for****
>>>
>>> that.****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Tim****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>>
>
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