[pasmembers] Night Sky Training Event
- From: Terri <cosmicstarstuff@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:56:28 -0800 (PST)
Leah, and everyone who is wondering what I had in mind when I decided we should
do this type of event....
NIGHT SKY TRAINING SESSION
What I thought we'd do is have a potluck at Mike's.
That way, tummies are full, we can concentrate on the
Night Sky Training Session.
Then, we all set up our scopes. Those of us who want to learn
the night sky, can set up closer together, and those who just
want to do a star party and show off objects, can do that,
now that we know that some people aren't interested in
doing this type of event.
After all of us are set up, meaning that if anyone needs
help aligning finders or scopes, or working with mounts,
or learning how to use a Go-to, then we can start concentrating
on the Night Sky learning.
A lot of good suggestions were mentioned. So, before we can
do a class like this, we need to be sure that everyone owns
some form of planisphere or star chart from which they will
use to find the objects first, then compare it to the night sky.
So, our first goal will be to make sure everyone has a finders
chart, of some sort. I use several, and I saw Sam and Eric
using books with charts in it. I think this will become a
requirementto do the class. Because, without a finders chart,
sky chart, those attending won't be able to find the objects
as easy on their own after the class. And this is in reference
to Tim's input about practicing the knowledge you have learned
at this class. I agree with Tim, one class isn't going to do it. But,
more than once a month, isn't going to work in our schedule. So,
we learn at the one class in, Example January, then use the knowledge all
through January to the next class in February.
But let me give you a really good example of why this type of
class is needed. And this is in reference to what Albert said...
We go to public events, we show the same objects over and over
because it is what we know how to find quickly. At public events,
speed in finding an object is sometimes more important than
hunting for something new, unless there is time to do so. So,
in reference to that idea.... I was at a star party with Don the other
day, and he showed, at a school, the Owl Nebula, also known
as the E.T. Cluster. At the school, i saw the two bright eyes
and thought that that was all there was to that object. Then,
about a month later, Don shows me how to find E.T. because
i asked and in his scope and my scope at Mike's place, I saw
E.T. standing there, with arms, legs, 2 eyes, it was Amazing! And, because I
asked how to find it, and Don is very good at showing
with a green laser where it is, I was able to find it at a future
event without Don's help. That is what cause me to think about
doing an event like this. And at a public event, we sometimes
don't' have time to ask our Telescope Team how to find an
object we haven't found previously.
During the Training Session, We aren't there to rush through a ton of objects.
We will take
the brightest, most fun objects, and learn where they are, make
notes, maybe try different filters and eyepieces. The idea is that, those who
need the guidance to find the objects, will have assistance
from those who know how to find the objects. And if we
all share what we know, we will have a bunch of objects to
show at the next event.
In the past, Don and I have raced to a new object that neither
of us has found in the past. But Don uses his Go-to and I
star hop and if I know where the object is, I usually can find
it faster, only because the Go-to slews slower than I can swing
my scope to the object. This only works if I know where it is,
because if I do not, as I have found, I can spend a lot of time
searching for it, and Don has already found it.
Someone suggested we do this type of event in a lit location
such as a park, so that what we are seeking can be found in
light polluted areas, like a school. However, if you can't
see the object at Mike's and know about what you are looking
for, in the better non lit skies of Mike's house, then you won't
see it at all at a school star party. So, yes, there is a toss up,
as to where to hold the event, but i believe that Mike's house
wouldbe the better location to learn at, and then when you take
your scope home to practice what you learned, that's when
you find out if it can be seen from light polluted areas.
When do we practice with the learned knowledge? At every
event or at your home observing session, every chance you are able to do it.
So, if you do the class, let's say it is in January, and there
are 3 school star parties, and one at Mike's scheduled for
that month, every chance you get, find those same objects
you learned in class. Use the knowledge and ask questions
during the class, because sometimes, at public events,
there isn't time to ask "What should i put my scope on next?"
You should have an idea of what is available.
Now the sky changes about every 3 months, drastically. Slightly
every month. So, if we were to do this type of training event
every 2 months, or there about, where it is convenient to
tie it into another event or make it it's own event, then we should
cover the whole sky in 2 years. But there are so many awesome
objects we can be showing in our scopes, that some of us have
no clue how to find. And I wouldn't want to do 2 years of
training classes only to stop them, just because the core members
know how to use their scopes and navigate the night sky. I'd rather make this a
regular class that we do semi often. Maybe
every 3 months, after we finish our first 2 training session of
Spring 2013. There are always new members needing
our assistance. This isn't a 1 time thing.But we can cut down
the number of sessions we have, after we have the first
couple and experiment with what works.
It's like the Bookmans events. William, Don and I discovered
what people what to know about when they come to the events,
and that is what we provide, now. When we first did the
events, we didn't know what to expect or how we could help.
But now, we bring our laptop for reference, I take notes
right in their email, and send it to them at the end of the
session with links we have talked about for their scope,
and it just works out great that way. But it didn't always.
So, a little trial and error is needed for the first two
training sessions of this type. Let's see what works
and what doesn't.
Now the finding of the objects will be handled several ways.
I know that some of you use setting circles. Others use
star hopping (that's me - even tho i have a go-to scope now),
and others use their Go-to. We will be doing this object
finding and comparing session first by star hop. You have to know
that the object is above the horizon, so if you can find out where
it is in the sky, even if you don't use that method to find it
as the end result, you can at least know if you can show the object by knowing
where it is.
So, let's do an example.
Everyone's scope is aligned, and everyone has some kind of
star chart to work from. Class is now in session.
Let's say, for example, our first object is Andromeda. You don't
know how elusive Andromeda can be at a school when you can't
see it naked eye to find it, until you tried, as i have done.
So, we locate in the sky Cassiopeia. We talk about the constellation and what
is available to see up there. If everyone
gives input, we all learn from it.
Then, we talk about where it is, how to star hop to it, point it out,
and then all find it, any way you want to find it. So, if you don't
want to use your setting circles, you can star hop to it.
Once on it, we all compare the view, verify we each found it and
take notes, play with our eyepiece and filters to find out what
the best view is for our scope, and when all are satisfied with
what we have, we can move on to another object. But the goal
is to help everyone find Andromeda. Find it, know where it is,
show the easiest way to star hop to it, and then do it. We can
discuss facts about it so that at a public event we know what
cool info we can share about the object. Again, i would be taking
notes so I have info I can use at star parties. A lot of people
don't take notes, but I am a note taker and i"m thinking
of making a mini book of the objects we view at these sessions,
and making notes of what i found out about those objects
so that I can use that info at future events. I"m just that way.
Anotherthing we can share at this event is the folk lore. I've been
wantingmore stories to tell about the constellations, because
at events, I like to do mini star tours about what is up that night,
what constellation, and i know that if i tell a story about the
constellation, they will remember it more than just saying that Cassiopeia is
the W or the M in the sky at night.
Does this fit your needs for the class and can you think of anything we can add
to it?
So, the next question is... when should we do the first class?
And do you mind if it is set up in a warmer month, please?
The Original Dates I chose were:
Feb 9 - might be too cold still
There is no event on this date, yet.
Mar 9 - should be better temps
Also, this won't interfere with the actual Messier Marathon
which is on Mar 16 at Mike's and other locations around AZ.
It was going to be set up as a private event for PAS members
to do their messier marathon practice. So I pick this as our
first date for this Training session. No Moon in the way. This
was already set up as a Private Dark Sky event at Mike's.
I had also picked April 13
This is the date that is already scheduled at Mike's
for a Private Dark Sky event for PAS members
and their guests. If you want to use this date for this event,
we have Sunset at 6:45, Venus, Moon, Jupiter and Saturn, Dark is 7:45 and the
potluck begins at 5pm.
Those of us wanting to do the class, can. And those who want
to do the star party for everyone else, can do that as well. What are your
thoughts about this date?
andJune 8.
And then, if we don't' get a second session in before the summer,
I suggested this date as a back up date. that's the next dark
sky night available, and it can be a private dark sky event
at Mike's, if needed. Since we don't' need to decide on this
date just yet, let's pin down the first date, first.
Then, if you want to open it to the public, we can do that as well,
but really, i think our members need the help first, and then
we can consider adding public. Maybe make it an invite only
situation for public. For instance, agree that 3 public can
join us at an event, and Sam can invite one, I can, and maybe
Darlene has a friend who wants telescope help. If there is only
3 public, and mostly PAS members, some of us more experienced
PAS members can help everyone without feeling overwhelmed.
Ideas on this? Actually, you know what might be better,
keep it as PAS members only and this way they have to Join
the club to come to the event with their telescope. I think
that's a better idea. But we can advertise it to help draw in
more membership.
Ok, so, is everyone ok with the two dates I chose above in
bold? If so, I will put it on the site and send out an official
email to everyone who might want to attend, PAS Members
only.
Give me input. I know some of you aren't interested, and that's fine. And some
of you may have some more helpful ideas
on how to make this event more successful. There will be
RSVP's needed, so we know how many are attending and you
can attend as many sessions as you feel you need. Since the sky
changes all the time, I suggest if you can make it to any or all
of the events, that would be great! The more attendance we have,
the more we know our PAS Members are getting to know the night sky.
Requirements for the class:
1) Your own telescope & accessories
2) A star chart - any type will do for North 30-40 degrees if you are thinking
of getting a planisphere.
3) $1/scope Toilet paper fee to Mike for use of his home for this event.
4) RSVP is required in case we want to limit the number in
attendance.
5) Must be a current PAS Member to attend.
You might want a note book and pencil, and red flashlight
to take notes, maybe a table and chair. And a Jacket.
Input is welcome.
Terri, Event Coordinator for PAS
PS: If anyone does not approve the 2 dates I chose for these
events, please reply with a reason why. Otherwise, send
your input and approve the dates and I will make this happen.
PPS: If we can resolve the dates we are doing these events
within a week, I can get an announcement in the next
newsletter about it.
Good friends are like stars. You don't always
see them, but you always know they are there.
Terri Phoenix Astronomical Society Event Coordinator
Visit the P.A.S. Blog & My Facebook Page
Visit my Music Page: Private Music Instructor
>________________________________
> From: L Phx <lphxaz@xxxxxxxxx>
>To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Cc: L Phx <lphxaz@xxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 5:28 AM
>Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Night Sky Training Event - Your input is requested
>
>
>and also people without a telescope can practice with binoculars. even
>inexpensive binocs with a basic adaptor and tripod can show a lot of objects
>(e.g. Pleiades, Hyades, Orion nebula, Lagoon nebula, Andromeda galaxy, etc).
>and the person can even show these objects at star parties, to show people
>"see all these cool objects you can see even with simple binoculars?" there
>are guidebooks for finding objects with binoculars. Phil Harrington's book
>(that I already mentioned) lists binocular objects too. and in the library
>you can find several books called "The Urban Astronomer" with info about
>easy-to-find objects. just because something is easy for *us* to find,
>doesn't make it less amazing when we tell people about it at a star party.
>it's not just *what* we show but what we tell them about it. a good view of
>the Andromeda galaxy or the Orion or Lagoon nebula (even through binoculars)
>and a good explanation of what they are seeing, can
be more educational for the public than a faint galaxy that we can just manage
to see with averted vision.
>
>
>On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 2:17 PM, L Phx <lphxaz@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>ok, a few comments.
>>
>>1) what do we mean by "finding objects in the night sky"? what level are we
>>talking about? are we talking about being able to identify the
>>constellations? or are we talking about - people who can identify the
>>constellations and the closest naked-eye star for a DSO, but are not able to
>>star-hop from there to the DSO, or to be sure they are looking at the right
>>object. one suggestion was "get a planisphere" but I can tell you, if
>>someone doesn't recognize the constellations yet a planisphere would not
>>help, and for star-hopping to a DSO from the nearest naked-eye star a
>>planisphere would not help either. we need to determine what type of help
>>people need (whether they need help in learning the constellations, or in
>>finding DSO's once they get there) in order to direct our efforts correctly.
>> some people might need one type of help and some might need the other.
>>
>>2) yes, of course more practice is needed, it's not a matter of a one-hour
>>lesson and then everyone will know how to find all the Messier objects with
>>their eyes closed. but the goal of the training sessions would be to give
>>people guidelines, and then they would go home and practice till they are
>>expert.
>>
>>3) a dark sky site is *not* the place to do this. why? because if someone
>>has only learned how to identify the constellations and/or find a certain DSO
>>under ideal conditions, that will not help them when we are giving a star
>>party under light-polluted conditions at PVCC on 32nd St or any other public
>>star party. this practice needs to be done under "real world" conditions,
>>e.g. at PVCC on 32nd St. then if the person also wants to find DSO's under a
>>dark sky it will be a piece of cake.
>>
>>4) there is a book called "The Year Round Messier Marathon" that shows how to
>>find all the Messier objects with a telrad.
>>http://www.amazon.com/Year-Round-Messier-Marathon-Field-Guide/dp/0943396549.
>>we might want to buy one for the club, and lend it out to members.
>>
>>5) there are other books that give guided tours for star-hopping, as well as
>>interesting info about the objects. that is the best solution for "ok I
>>found it, now what do I tell people about it?" two good books: "Star Watch"
>>by Phil Harrington
>>http://www.amazon.com/Star-Watch-Astronomers-Observing-Celestial/dp/0471418048
>> and "Celestial Sampler" by Sue French
>>http://www.amazon.com/Celestial-Sampler-Small-Scope-Starlit-Stargazing/dp/1931559287.
>> there are many other books of course, but these focus on cool facts about
>>"easy" beginner objects, as well as how to find them, and what they will look
>>like when you do find them. you can also go to the library and get a few
>>books and read them and take notes.
>>
>>6) also don't forget Prof Jim Kaler's "Stars" website
>>http://stars.astro.illinois.edu/sow/sowlist.html with cool facts about
>>naked-eye stars that you can tell people about even without a telescope.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 2:18 AM, Rick Cunningham <phxf1fan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>I am definately interested in this. My knowledge is all self taught and
>>honestly very incomplete. This will be an excellent training tool.
>>>On Jan 10, 2013 11:56 AM, "AT" <atuk@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>Very timely subject. I suspect that as Tim suggested and Eric seconded,
>>>plus Terri's input, there are many, including my self-taught self, that
>>>could use some hands on training. We are fortunate to have wonderful
>>>equipment that can find rare and beautiful objects, and we even learn the
>>>general quadrant to search in so that when the GPS is distracted we have a
>>>clue and can realign.
>>>>
>>>>I will be the first to admit that I learn very little at public star
>>>>parties because I do the same thing over and over, punch in object, go to
>>>>object and try to see through the light pollution.
>>>>
>>>>This holiday season was a loss for viewing with company, clouds, rain and
>>>>colds. The night that the temperature dropped to below freezing the sky
>>>>was finally clear, the company was leaving the next day, and they wanted to
>>>>see Jupiter, so we did, plus several other objects. We viewed until early
>>>>morning, the sky was clear.
>>>>
>>>>Since that beautiful night here in Anthem the clouds have rolled through on
>>>>a regular basis and the colds continue to circulate through family members.
>>>>
>>>>When all this is cleared up and we are no longer contagious I would like to
>>>>be included in this training event.
>>>>
>>>>Albert
>>>>
>>>>From:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>[mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tim Jones
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 11:41 PM
>>>>To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Night Sky Training Event - Your input is requested
>>>>
>>>>I agree with Sam here. Especially since I already do this for most
>>>>visitors to our outreach and viewing events because they almost all ask
>>>>"that" question -"how do you know where to look?"
>>>>
>>>>To Eric, I agree that pointers and guidance are useful ( otherwise, Terri
>>>>would have no students), but we need to make sure that finding things is a
>>>>skill learned through doing, not listening to others and that skill takes
>>>>years to become good.
>>>>
>>>>Tim
>>>>
>>>>Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:15 PM, insanas@xxxxxxx wrote:
>>>>We have so many cancelled star parties because of rain, clouds, wind, etc..
>>>>I hate to set up a new star party just for this topic. I would be happy to
>>>>take one hour of a regular public star party to work with new pas members
>>>>who want to learn the night sky. I would show them star charts,
>>>>planispheres, messier handouts, telrad charts, setting cirlces,
>>>>constellations charts, sky and telescope planet charts, etc... Once the
>>>>newbies see how an object is found, they can try to find the next object
>>>>and I would help them if they get lost. Anyway, spending one hour at a
>>>>public star party saves setting up a whole separate star party. Take care,
>>>>Sam
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: Eric Steinberg <eric@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>To: pasmembers <pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>Sent: Wed, Jan 9, 2013 5:43 pm
>>>>>Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Night Sky Training Event - Your input is
>>>>>requested
>>>>>Tim, your point is well taken - you can only learn it ultimately by
>>>>>doing it. Yet I think there is some validity to the idea. Though it
>>>>>comes naturally to some of us, others have some difficulty making
>>>>>overall sense of the sky even with a planisphere, and may not even know
>>>>>where to start.
>>>>>
>>>>>Eventually, those with an interest will have to do exactly what you say,
>>>>>but we can help with some basic explanations, like how to use the
>>>>>planisphere, the idea of star-hopping or things like the precession of
>>>>>the stars and the celestial equatorial/polar concept. That along with
>>>>>some hands-on demos might get people kick-started to do their own
>>>>>learning.
>>>>>
>>>>>JM2C
>>>>>Eric
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>[mailto:pasmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tim Jones
>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 3:03 PM
>>>>>To: pasmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>Subject: [pasmembers] Re: Night Sky Training Event - Your input is
>>>>>requested
>>>>>
>>>>>While I appreciate the intent behind this, the only way to learn the
>>>>>night sky is to get out under it and look up. A session here or there
>>>>>really is not going to help.
>>>>>
>>>>>Imagine one of your music students that you only see 2-3 times a year
>>>>>because their schedule doesn't allow them to practice the instrument
>>>>>more often. Just how quickly do you think they would learn to master
>>>>>the instrument? Learning the night sky is very much like learning to
>>>>>play an instrument. While a bit of guidance will help keep the student
>>>>>on the proper track, it only practicing regularly that results in the
>>>>>student learning to play the instrument.
>>>>>
>>>>>My recommendation for learning the sky - get a Planisphere (either an
>>>>>app or a real one) and spend evenings looking at the sky and learning
>>>>>the lay of the land (so to speak). You don't even need a telescope for
>>>>>that.
>>>>>
>>>>>Tim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
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