[overture] Re: Building v24 on Blue Gene P

  • From: "J. P. Bernstein" <astro@xxxxxxx>
  • To: overture@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 15:29:11 -0500 (CDT)

Hello Bill,

Would you be able to send me some information about specific machines Overture 
has been run on and some performance metrics on those machines? I am putting 
together an application for discretionary time on the Argonne Blue Gene/P and 
including such information would be very beneficial.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Henshaw" <henshaw@xxxxxxxx>
To: overture@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:36:18 PM
Subject: [overture] Re: Building v24 on Blue Gene P

Thanks Erik,
   I had forgot that you had built a null version of OpenGL.

On 03/29/2012 03:58 PM, Erik Wilson wrote:
> Similar to the noX11 flag, the patch I sent (attached for everyone else)
> add options for noGL and noPERL configure flags. OpenGL functionality is
> removed via a null implementation; just in case Mesa proves too
> difficult to compile.
> Cheers,
>    -Erik
> On 03/28/2012 02:54 PM, J. P. Bernstein wrote:
>> Thanks, Bill.
>> Can you please clarify if those changes are in v24, or if you are referring 
>> to changes post v24?
>> Indeed, I am close to compiling Mesa on BG/P. I am getting a failure due to 
>> the compiler not being recognized at the latter stage of compiling libmesa 
>> itself. I am corresponding with the Mesa folks about that.
>> Thanks for your offer of help regarding the perl script. I am handy with 
>> perl, so I agree that that step should not be hard.
>> Best,
>> Joe
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bill Henshaw"<henshaw@xxxxxxxx>
>> To: overture@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 4:48:51 PM
>> Subject: [overture] Re: Building v24 on Blue Gene P
>> Hi Joe,
>>        As Kyle noted, I have already made the changes to optionally remove 
>> the
>> dependencies on X and Motif. My plan was to still link to OpenGL, this should
>> not be a big deal.
>>       It is a simple matter to write a perl program that can convert a
>> command file to one that does not need perl. I can help
>> you with that.
>> ...Bill
>> On 03/28/2012 01:07 PM, Chand, Kyle K. wrote:
>>> Hi Joe,
>>> I think for the OpenGL you can build Mesa without X11 and direct rendering 
>>> so you will get the library to link against.  Here is a VisIt page about 
>>> how they built Mesa on a BG/P system:
>>> http://www.visitusers.org/index.php?title=Building_on_BlueGeneP
>>> It is kind of out of date and things might be easier now...
>>> Regards,
>>> Kyle
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: overture-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [overture-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
>>> Behalf Of J. P. Bernstein [astro@xxxxxxx]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:45 PM
>>> To: overture@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [overture] Re: Building v24 on Blue Gene P
>>> Or am I confused. Does CG need the Overture source, Overture compilation 
>>> products, or both? If only the source, then I better understand your point 
>>> about really what I need to do is divorce Overture and CG form things.
>>> Best,
>>> Joe
>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 2:44 PM, J. P. Bernstein wrote:
>>>> Thanks, Kyle.
>>>> For Overture on BG/P, there is also the issue of X, MOTIF, and OpenGL. The 
>>>> CISM folks modified a version of Overture in 2008 to strip those things in 
>>>> addition to perl. Building CG alone on BG/P would reduce the problem to 
>>>> the CG divorce from those things at the expense of additionally divorcing 
>>>> CG from Overture.
>>>> In the end, it comes down to either divorcing Overture and CG from perl, 
>>>> X, MOTIF, and OpenGL, or divorcing Overture from CG and CG from perl, X, 
>>>> MOTIF, and OpenGL (I am not yet sure the extent to which CG even depends 
>>>> on those things). It seems to me that the latter is more sensible, but 
>>>> make that statement as a mere Overture initiate. What do you and the 
>>>> experts say?
>>>> Best,
>>>> Joe
>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 2:19 PM, Chand, Kyle K. wrote:
>>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>>> Really you will be divorcing Overture and CG from perl, which is doable.  
>>>>> Stripping calls from Overture is easy, you just need to hack/replace 
>>>>> Ogshow/OvertureParser.C when building it on the BG/P backend.  Generating 
>>>>> perl-less command files on your mac will not be that hard though it may 
>>>>> involve some adjustments to the way overture's command interpreter 
>>>>> records the playback commands.  It may also be possible to do it with a 
>>>>> simple perl script that reads a command file line by line, interprets 
>>>>> each line ending in a semi-colon and string-interpolates the remaining 
>>>>> lines, outputting the interpolated lines to a perl-less command file.
>>>>> bpp should not be an issue.  It is used to generate code at compile time 
>>>>> (only when bpp files have changed) and is never executed at run time.  If 
>>>>> executing bpp on the frontend when compiling cg is an issue you can just 
>>>>> 'touch' all the source files so that the bpp dependencies are not 
>>>>> activated in the build system.  If that does not work then the build 
>>>>> system will have to be adjusted to ignore regeneration of bpp generated 
>>>>> source code.
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Kyle
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> From: overture-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [overture-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
>>>>> Behalf Of J. P. Bernstein [astro@xxxxxxx]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 11:43 AM
>>>>> To: overture@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [overture] Re: Building v24 on Blue Gene P
>>>>> Hello Kyle,
>>>>> I have confirmed with ALCF management that building perl on the backend 
>>>>> of the Argonne BG/P is not and will not be supported by the facility due 
>>>>> to overhead issues.
>>>>> What we are really after is having CG built on the BG/P backend. To us, 
>>>>> the most sensible path is to build Overture somewhere else (like my Mac 
>>>>> laptop, which has been done), and use it to generate perl-less command 
>>>>> files to pass to a CG build on the BG/P backend. Thus, I would like to 
>>>>> divorce CG from Overture to the greatest extent possible. How realistic 
>>>>> is that goal, from the perspective of the Overture developers?
>>>>> The immediate issue that arises with the above is CG's dependency on BPP. 
>>>>> How much does CG depended on the extended capabilities of BPP, relative 
>>>>> to CPP. In other words, would building BPP on it's own or reverting CG to 
>>>>> work with CPP make more sense?
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Joe
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Kyle K. Chand"<chand1@xxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: overture@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 4:24:19 PM
>>>>> Subject: [overture] Re: Building v24 on Blue Gene P
>>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>>> Mechanically, it would not be hard to replace the perl interpreter in
>>>>> OvertureParser.C with the python interpreter (or any other
>>>>> interpreter, check out Lua!).
>>>>> However, it may be a great deal of effort to translate all our command
>>>>> files from perl to python.  We do not use perl for regular
>>>>> expressions, we use perl for two
>>>>> purposes:
>>>>> 1) writing perl code to parameterize and generate input to our grid
>>>>> generator and solvers, and
>>>>> 2) utilize perl's "string interpolation" mechanism to turn command
>>>>> file lines like:
>>>>> $N=11;
>>>>> number of grid lines
>>>>> $N $N
>>>>> into
>>>>> number of grid lines
>>>>> 11 11
>>>>> Lately we have been using 1) a lot more, often writing perl loops and
>>>>> including perl modules to parameterize and automate input generation
>>>>> and make things generally more maintainable.
>>>>> The mechanism represented by 2) is how 1) eventually gets used.  So,
>>>>> it would be a lot of work to re-write many of our more recent (and
>>>>> future) command files to use another interpreted language.
>>>>> I think the most efficient path would be to strip perl from the BG
>>>>> port of the code.  Then use Overture on some other machine to generate
>>>>> perl-less, pure text, input for the problems you want to run.  One
>>>>> could even
>>>>> write a (perl :-) script that reads a command file and sends each line
>>>>> ending with a semi-colon to the interpreter and every other line for
>>>>> string interpolation, echoing the interpolated line to a "stripped"
>>>>> command file.  You would not even need another copy of Overture for
>>>>> that.
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Kyle
>>>>> mailto: chand1@xxxxxxxx
>>>>> phoneto: (925) 422 7740
>>>>> On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:09 PM, J. P. Bernstein wrote:
>>>>>> Thank you very much, Kyle, for those details.
>>>>>> While I am digesting that, would you care to comment on the notion
>>>>>> of replacing perl functionality with python? I am not familiar
>>>>>> enough with python or Overture to know, of the top of my head, if
>>>>>> python offers the capability needed.
>>>>>> I ask because python is available on the back end of the BG/P at
>>>>>> Argonne. Might such a transformation be of interest to you and the
>>>>>> Overture team? My job description would allow me to engage
>>>>>> considerably on such a task.
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>> On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:42 PM, Kyle K. Chand wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>>>>> Well, I have some bad news regarding perl.  Perl is really an
>>>>>>> integral part of how we set up problems both for the
>>>>>>> grid generator as well as CG solver runs.  Using Overture w/o perl
>>>>>>> is kind of like editing C++ files with ed in a terminal window; you
>>>>>>> can do it but it is not really suggested :-)  Overture's graphics/
>>>>>>> interpreter interface actually starts a perl interpreter
>>>>>>> and the text commands are first sent to the interpreter to either
>>>>>>> get string interpolation performed or perl statements evaluated.
>>>>>>> You can see an example of how this is used in $Overture/sampleGrids/
>>>>>>> squareArg.cmd, which parameterizes an ogen
>>>>>>> grid generator command file using perl statements.
>>>>>>> Now, it is probably possible to build Overture without the perl
>>>>>>> interpreter linked in, you will have to change OvertureParser.C as
>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>> as the bin/Makefile to remove references to perl.  Then, however,
>>>>>>> you will need to strip perl from any command files you plan to use.
>>>>>>> The best way to go would be to compile Perl for BGP.  However, if
>>>>>>> that is not possible for some reason, here is another way to go:
>>>>>>> 1) Build a "full" version of Overture somewhere you can generate
>>>>>>> grids and test things out
>>>>>>> 2) Modify this "full" version to write the "plain text" command
>>>>>>> files after the perl processing is completed, run any command files
>>>>>>> you want through it to strip the perl
>>>>>>> 3) Build a "perl-less" version for BGP on which you can run perl-
>>>>>>> stripped cg command files
>>>>>>> The easiest way to "strip" command files of perl might be to
>>>>>>> intercept the interpolated strings before they get sent to the rest
>>>>>>> of Overture
>>>>>>> from OvertureParser, I'll have to think about the least-intrusive
>>>>>>> way to do that.
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Kyle
>>>>>>> PS, I will try to get to your Mac question later today.
>>>>>>> mailto: chand1@xxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> phoneto: (925) 422 7740
>>>>>>> On Mar 2, 2012, at 5:58 PM, J. P. Bernstein wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello Bill,
>>>>>>>> Thank you and Kyle for the quick replies to my emails.
>>>>>>>> Warning headed. I am on assignment from the Argonne Leadership
>>>>>>>> Computing
>>>>>>>> Facility (ALCF) on this effort. There is significant interest at
>>>>>>>> ALCF to
>>>>>>>> at least run the CG solvers on BGP (not necessarily ogen).
>>>>>>>> Nevertheless,
>>>>>>>> I will share your sentiment with my assigners.
>>>>>>>> A question about the perl situation: my initial assessment
>>>>>>>> suggested to
>>>>>>>> me that perl was needed only for configuring the build and running
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> tests. Since perl is available on the front end, the configuration
>>>>>>>> part
>>>>>>>> should work. Part of my assignment is converting the perl test
>>>>>>>> scripts
>>>>>>>> to, e.g., python. However, your message below makes me doubt my
>>>>>>>> assessment. Are the perl libs, which, as you know, are not
>>>>>>>> available on
>>>>>>>> the back end, needed at run time beyond the test scripts?
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>> On 3/2/2012 6:08 PM, Bill Henshaw wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>>>>>>> At one time I did get Overture compiled on the BGP front end at ANL
>>>>>>>>> with xlc but I was left
>>>>>>>>> with the issue that the perl libraries were not available with
>>>>>>>>> BGP. We
>>>>>>>>> could work around
>>>>>>>>> this if necessary but I prefer not too if possible.
>>>>>>>>> That said, experience tells me that since we have not run
>>>>>>>>> Overture on
>>>>>>>>> BGP then you
>>>>>>>>> are likely to have problems that will be very hard for you to fix.
>>>>>>>>> Therefore this is just a warning
>>>>>>>>> that the path you are on may lead to great misery and despair ...
>>>>>>>>> ...Bill
>>>>>>>>> J. P. Bernstein wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>> I am trying to build Overture.v24 on Blue Gene P (BG/P).
>>>>>>>>>> In an attempt to add a BG/P configuration for A++, I looked for
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> following config file mentioned in the A++ README file:
>>>>>>>>>> A++/config/config.options
>>>>>>>>>> but was not able to find the file or the directory mentioned in
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> A++ directory tree.
>>>>>>>>>> I was able to build A++ without errors with the following
>>>>>>>>>> configure
>>>>>>>>>> command:
>>>>>>>>>> ./configure --with-CC=mpixlc_r --with-CFLAGS="-qarch=450d -
>>>>>>>>>> qtune=450"
>>>>>>>>>> --with-CXX=mpixlcxx_r --with-CXXFLAGS="-qarch=450d -qtune=450"
>>>>>>>>>> --prefix=`pwd`
>>>>>>>>>> However, the flags did not seem to be passed:
>>>>>>>>>> mpixlc_r -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../.. -I../../include
>>>>>>>>>> -c
>>>>>>>>>> `test -f common_func.c || echo './'`common_func.c
>>>>>>>>>> mpixlcxx_r           -o resize  resize.o
>>>>>>>>>> -L/home/jpbernst/Code/Overture/A++P++-0.8.0/A++/install/lib  -
>>>>>>>>>> L../src
>>>>>>>>>> -lApp -lApp_static -lApp  -lm
>>>>>>>>>> Is this a known issue?
>>>>>>>>>> Returning to the BG/P config issue, I tried to hack :
>>>>>>>>>> config/A++P++_common_autoconfig.m4
>>>>>>>>>> config.sub
>>>>>>>>>> in order to add a Bg/P setup without success. Is there
>>>>>>>>>> documentation
>>>>>>>>>> available for adding a machine config? I was not able to find
>>>>>>>>>> any on
>>>>>>>>>> the Overture webpage.
>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>> Joe Bernstein
>>> .

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