[OGD] Obnoxious Bullies

  • From: Phillip Morris Diamond <pmd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <orchids@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:42:20 +1000

Sandpit? Orchid compost heap please!
Jovially,  Phil

Dr Phil Diamond   pmd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  Tel: (61) 7 3269 0302
66 Cliff Street, Sandgate 4017 AUSTRALIA

From: orchids@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thu 12/11/2008 5:04 PM
To: orchids digest users
Subject: orchids Digest V1 #63

orchids Digest  Wed, 10 Dec 2008        Volume: 01  Issue: 063

In This Issue:
                Re: Not another flame war, please. 
                protecting endagered species / track record (US)
                Encyclopaedia and new society.
                colored sarcochilus
                conservation at the Atlanta Botanical Garden / Georgia (US)
                Re: Raffle Plants
                Staten Island society / New York (US)
                show  proceeds / children's charity // Naples, Florida (US)
                Obnoxious Bully


From: Oliver Sparrow <director@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Not another flame war, please. 
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:34:23 +0000


>God, is this not the stupidist ....

... and so on. Please, people, don't reply. It is a sad business, and not
worth any more column inches. 


Oliver Sparrow
+44 (0)1628 823187


Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:15:50 -0500
From: viateur.boutot@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: protecting endagered species / track record (US)

from a press release by The Center for Biological Diversity:

"The [US]... administration... issued its final notice of review 
identifying 251 species that are candidates for protection as endangered 
The first such list produced... in 2001 included 252 species...

This review is the last page in a dark chapter for endangered species, 
said Noah Greenwald, biodiversity program director for the Center for 
Biological Diversity.
The Bush administration has achieved the worst track record protecting 
endangered species since the landmark law was passed.

To date, the Administration has protected a mere 61 species, for a rate of 
less than eight species per year.
This compares to 522 protected under the Clinton administration, a rate of 
65 species per year; and 231 species protected under the George H.W. Bush 
administration, a rate of 58 species per year.
The low rate of listing under the George W. Bush administration occurred 
despite a budget for the listing of species that has risen from just over 
$3 million in 2002 to more than $8 million in 2008.
During his two-and-a-half-year tenure, Secretary of Interior Dirk 
Kempthorne has overseen the listing of just one species...

Secretary Kempthorne surpasses even James Watt as the most 
anti-environmental Secretary of Interior in history, Greenwald said.

Besides delaying protection for hundreds of species, the Secretary is 
rushing through midnight regulations  proposed in the final weeks of the 
Administration  that would gut key protections for endangered species, 
open up millions of acres of public land for oil-shale development, and 
loosen rules on uranium mining to open areas near the Grand Canyon and 

We are counting down the final days of the Bush administration with bated 
breath, said Greenwald.
And we are looking forward to working with a far more environmentally 
friendly Obama administration to undo these terrible regulations and 
finally obtain protection for the 251 candidate species within a reasonable 

The Center and other groups have a pending lawsuit in Washington, D.C., 
arguing that continued delays in protecting the now 251 candidate species 
is illegal, because the U,S, Fish and Wildlife Service is not making 
expeditious progress listing species as required by the Endangered Species 
Likely in response to this litigation, Kempthorne in October issued a 
proposal for protection of 31 of the candidates from Hawaii.
This proposal, however, fell short of a February 29th promise by Dale Hall, 
director of the Fish and Wildlife Service, to members of a House of 
Representatives appropriations subcommittee to propose to list 71 of the 
candidates during fiscal year 2008.
No final rules listing candidate species were issued since the last review 
was published in 2007.
The 251 candidates include a wide variety of species...
Being designated as a candidate does not provide any formal protection to 
the 251 species, a number of which have been waiting for protection for 
almost as long as the Endangered Species Act has been around.
Each of the candidates are given a priority number ranging from 1 to 12 
based on their taxonomic rank (e.g. species, subspecies or population) and 
magnitude and immediacy of threats, with lower numbers indicating higher 
priority. The majority of candidates are rated as high priority.
For example, 120 of the 251 have a listing priority number of 2, which is 
the highest a species can have, meaning they are in immediate danger of 

Todays review raised the priority level for several species...
candidate species:
White fringeless orchid  The White fringeless orchid is a 2-foot-tall herb 
that grows in wetlands in the Blue Ridge Mountains and Alabama's coastal 
plain. It has been found in Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky and South 
Carolina, and has been a candidate for 30 years. The orchid is limited to 
53 locations.

The Center for Biological Diversity is a national nonprofit conservation 
organization with 200,000 members and online activists dedicated to the 
protection of endangered species and wild places."

URL : 




From: "Andy Easton" <aeaston@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Encyclopaedia and new society.
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:02:26 -0800

Good to read about the Gruene Orchid group. They seem very enthusiastic and the 
refreshments should assure a good turnout whenever they meet!
Hard to get enthusiastic about Isobyl la Croix's book. She would appear to know 
a lot about a very insignificant group of orchids and anyone who grows orchids 
in Scotland is assuredly a lightweight. Thanks to her buddies at Kew the names 
will regularly change whenever a North wind blows through the Highlands so the 
whole regurgitative exercise (she has copied from previous authors like 
Pridgeon and Stewart) will be well nigh useless in a couple of years. Just look 
at how The Orchid Review (billed as the pre-eminent orchid magazine by Timber 
Press!) has declined under her editorship and anyway, those of us who are in 
the real orchid world know that the Australian Orchid Review has left all the 
orchid journals in its wake and is continuing to distance them, issue by issue.


From: K Barrett <orchidtrekker@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: colored sarcochilus
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:35:23 +0000

This regards the new color forms of in Sarcochilus breeding.  Sarco. John Woolf 
is a bluish hybrid.  He has peach, orange, green and yellow forms on his web 
page too.  An article in the 4/2001 Orchid Australia magazine (WD Morris - 
author?) speculates the bluish color comes from two traits that must be present 
in a particular individual in the parental stock, therefore not all Sarco Susan 
(for example) have the two traits that combine to make the light color.
Since this article is 7-8 years old and builds on a previous AOR article by 
Banks and Woolf I wondered if the genetics has become better understood.  IIRC 
Banks and Woolf thought that the timing of when parental stock was added to the 
hybrid line was key to getting the blue color, whereas Morris thought blue 
depended on two traits, one of which was rare, so one had to know which clone 
had both traits & therefore would yeild a greater # of blues.  Do these 
theories apply to the yellow, peach etc color forms too?  (I guess my question 
is: is it harder to get a blue one or is yellow or peach equally as difficult?)
Here in the US we really only see white Sarcos with varying amounts of red in 
the center.  So I was interested to see that blues were possible, to say 
nothing of the other colors.  Do these thrive?  I understand some clones of 
Sarco fitzgeraldii 'Lorraine' grow slowly but from googling around it appears 
that this has been overcome and there are several clones of reds that bloom, 
grow and breed more freely than 'Lorraine'.  Yes?  No?  
Any discussion would be welcome 
K Barrett
N Calif, USA
Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.


Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:40:49 -0500
From: viateur.boutot@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: conservation at the Atlanta Botanical Garden / Georgia (US)

"[at the Atlanta Botanical Garden] The conservation staff... is focusing on 
a small collection of rare plants...
[including] Kentucky lady-slipper orchids
[photo : 
In 2002, the garden built a tissue culture lab...
In it are growing thousands of orchids, each living on a nutrient-rich, 
gel-like medium in a small container.
... Matt Richards, the gardens orchid center horticulturist.
Some of these orchids have been in the lab for a decade without developing 
so much as a leaf, testifying to the painstaking process of reproducing 
some of natures most difficult plants.
Mr. Richards is growing orchids from dustlike seed collected in the wild  
a state park in Florida and a solitary patch of private land in Georgia. He 
will eventually return the plants to both of these sites, completing a 
conservation cycle that entirely bypasses the public grounds that botanical 
gardens are generally better known for.

Other plants will stay at the garden as part of a living collection...

About three dozen botanical gardens and arboretums across the [US] have 
joined the program to catalog their living plant collections and share 
responsibility for ensuring the existence of individual species into... future.

... Matthewss work with the dancing lady orchid are now considered as 
crucial to the gardens mission as maintaining its public conservatory."

URL : 




From: IrisCohen@xxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:47:05 EST
Subject: Re: Raffle Plants

In a message dated 12/10/08 2:06:32 AM, orchids@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
> Why take a raffle plant if you don't want it?
Why does anyone take a raffle plant? We all have a little gambler in us. I 
have gotten a lot of raffle plants that turned out to be dogs, and a few gems. 
They are good for practice, if nothing else. In this case, the table was 
covered with these tiny little things in 2 inch pots, & I wasn't going to hold 
everyone up examining each one. For 67 apiece, what do I have to lose? I 
at the time that if Hoosier was giving them away, they are the sweepings off 
the floor, but you never know. I might even learn how to grow Masdevallias.
So if anyone is familiar with these crosses, I would like any information you 
might have.

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From: "Max Redman" <maxred1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Ref.Vol.62
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:14:13 +1100

I see Andy Easton is his usual vitriotic self. Perhaps he should be the one 
to go to the uninhabitated island.
He was the same in both Australia and New Zealand.
Lets have more about growing orchids instaed of rants and raves.

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Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:13:55 -0500
From: viateur.boutot@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Staten Island society / New York (US)

"The Staten Island Orchid Society meets every third Tuesday"

URL : 




Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:44:35 -0500
From: viateur.boutot@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: show  proceeds / children's charity // Naples, Florida (US)

"a check for the net proceeds of $5,700 from the 2008 Naples Orchid Show in 
March was presented to... Laces of Love, by ... the Naples Orchid Society...

Laces of Love, a local children's charity, provides new shoes to 
disadvantaged children in Collier and Lee Counties...

www.naplesorchidsociety.org   ..."

URL : 




From: Orchdcrazy@xxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 01:56:48 EST
Subject: Obnoxious Bully

I have been following the Orchids Digest for several years and enjoy the  
sharing of information, the different opinions on various topics, and the  
opportunity to acquire new information about my favorite Family of plants.   I 
despise the personal attacks that seem to be occurring more frequently.   Each 
member of the site should feel free to post comments about orchids and to  
differing opinions on topics about orchids.  What is offensive, is  the very 
small number of persons, one in particular, who go beyond discussing  orchids 
and make vicious personal attacks on other members.   Offering a different 
opinion is fine, if done nicely and in a constructive  manner, but calling 
stupid is inexcusable.  One lady is  repeatedly attacked by a single poster 
with disgusting personal insults.  I  do not think it should be tolerated.
My request is for the moderator to establish a firm policy that  personal 
attacks will result in banning a poster from this forum.  I  am grateful to the 
moderator for the time and effort he puts into  maintaining the web site.  It 
would be sad to see it destroyed  by an obnoxious bully.
If the majority feel I am wrong, I will apologize.  Please express  your 
opinion.  It is a much more fun when children can agree to share  the sandbox 
play nicely.
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favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. 


End of orchids Digest V1 #63

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  • » [OGD] Obnoxious Bullies - Phillip Morris Diamond