Thanks=20Dick,=20and=20everybody=20else=20that=20replied. I=20spoke=20to=20relevant=20people=20and=20they=20agreed=20to=20let=20me=20= handle=20this. Unfortunately,=20whilst=20in=20the=20meeting,=203rd=20party=20has=20dialle= d=20in=20and=20begun=20setting=20up=20schemas. As=20an=20example=20-=20 CREATE=20TABLESPACE=20"LIVE1DATA"=20LOGGING=20DATAFILE=20'E:\ORACLE\etc'=20= SIZE=20700M=20REUSE=20AUTOEXTEND=20ON=20NEXT=20100M=20MAXSIZE=2032767M=20D= EFAULT=20STORAGE=20(INITIAL=2064K=20NEXT=2064K=20MINEXTENTS=201=20MAXEXTEN= TS=202147483645=20PCTINCREASE=200) And=20he's=20created=2024=20of=20them! I=20managed=20to=20get=20in=20touch=20with=20the=20guy=20to=20ask=20why=20= defaults=20had=20been=20used=20and=20his=20comment=20was=20that=20most=20p= laces=20they=20do=20work=20for=20don't=20have=20a=20dedicated=20DBA,=20and= =20doing=20it=20this=20way=20is=20quicker.=20They=20monitor=20it=20and=20m= ake=20any=20changes=20when=20the=20client=20calls=20in=20to=20report=20a=20= problem. Oh,=20and=20after=20reading=20Dick's=20mail,=20I=20checked=20out=20the=20u= ser=20set=20up=20and=20permissions. The=20users=20log=20in=20as=20the=20schema=20owner,=20but=20all=20of=20the= =20schema=20owners=20have=20been=20granted=20the=20same=20role.=20And=20it= =20would=20appear=20the=20grant=20all=20option=20has=20been=20used. Methinks=20I=20have=20some=20clearing=20up=20to=20do!! Lisa. -----Original=20Message----- From:=20Goulet,=20Dick=20[mailto:DGoulet@xxxxxxxx] Sent:=2013=20May=202004=2015:00 To:=20oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject:=20RE:=20Software=20vendor=20using=20additional=20schemas=20for=20= testing! Peter, =09Thanks=20for=20the=20reformat=20I=20was=20having=20problems=20reading=20= the=20original=20=3D message=20(Outlook,=20yuck). Lisa, =09What=20I=20believe=20you=20need=20to=20do=20is=20get=20damanagement=20t= o=20quantify=20what=20it=20=3D would=20cost=20them=20when=20the=20production=20schema=20gets=20trashed.=20= =20With=20all=20of=20=3D that=20data=20running=20around=20in=20one=20instance=20on=20one=20computer= =20that=20will=20=3D happen,=20just=20a=20matter=20of=20time=20before=20someone=20logs=20onto=20= the=20wrong=20schema.=20=3D =20I'm=20also=20guessing=20that=20the=203rd=20party=20vendor=20did=20a=20"= grant=20all=20on=20all=20to=20=3D public"=20and/or=20passed=20out=20the=20production=20password=20like=20can= dy,=20which=20is=20=3D something=20that=20Sarbanes-Oaxley=20will=20NOT=20look=20nicely=20on.=20=20= Some=20one=20may=20=3D well=20get=20their=20hand=20slapped=20pretty=20hard=20since=20this=20is=20= financials=20we're=20=3D talking=20about.=20=20You=20also=20have=20the=20problem=20that=20activity=20= in=20one=20schema=20=3D directly=20impacts=20the=20production=20schema.=20=20Response=20time=20can= =20get=20VERY=20=3D slow,=20competition=20for=20rollback=20space=20is=20also=20a=20problem,=20= bet=20they=20left=20=3D only=20one=20rollback=20segment=20laying=20around=20in=20the=20system=20ta= blespace.=20=20Did=20=3D they=20configure=20a=20temp=20space=20or=20is=20that=20in=20system=20as=20= well??=20=20Running=20=3D system=20into=20the=20ground=20like=20that=20can=20cause=20the=20database=20= to=20cease=20=3D functioning=20with=20some=20really=20odd=20errors.=20=20What=20they=20shou= ld=20have=20is=20=3D production=20dedicated=20on=20one=20server=20with=20a=20second=20server=20= doing=20all=20of=20=3D this=20other=20stuff.=20=20If=20their=20absolutely=20bound=20to=20retainin= g=20one=20server=20due=20=3D to=20Oracle=20licensing=20issues,=20recommend=20a=20change=20in=20OS=20to=20= Linux.=20=20For=20one=20=3D it's=20cheaper,=20two=20it=20does=20not=20need=20as=20beefy=20a=20piece=20= of=20hardware,=20and=20=3D three=20you=20can=20more=20easily=20run=20multiple=20instances=20thereon=20= so=20that=20at=20=3D least=20production=20&=20the=20other=20stuff=20can=20be=20on=20separate=20= instances=20which=20=3D adds=20a=20nice=20layer=20of=20isolation=20from=20data=20corruption. Dick=20Goulet Senior=20Oracle=20DBA Oracle=20Certified=208i=20DBA -----Original=20Message----- From:=20Robson,=20Peter=20[mailto:pgro@xxxxxxxxx] Sent:=20Thursday,=20May=2013,=202004=205:21=20AM To:=20oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject:=20RE:=20Software=20vendor=20using=20additional=20schemas=20for=20= testing! Management=20will=20not=20understand=20technical=20arguements=20in=20favou= r=20of=20one=20=3D strate=3D3D gy=20or=20another. You=20have=20to=20hit=20them=20with=20the=20issue=20of=20data=20quality,=20= and=20integrity.=20The=20=3D sys=3D3D tem=20you=20describe=20seems=20to=20put=20these=20factors=20into=20questio= n.=20Bring=20it=20down=20=3D to=3D3D =20money=20-=20a=20simplistic=20approach=20most=20management=20do=20unders= tand.=20Consider=20=3D the=20=3D3D cost=20to=20the=20organisation=20of=20the=20database=20going=20pear-shaped= .=20That's=20your=20=3D bas=3D3D e=20line.=20Then=20try=20and=20quantify=20the=20successive=20costs=20of=20= each=20step=20towards=20=3D you=3D3D r=20perceived=20best=20system,=20with=20the=20financial=20costs=20of=20not= =20doing=20that.=20=3D Place=20=3D3D a=20qualitative=20assessment=20of=20the=20vulnerablitiy=20of=20your=20pres= ent=20system=20to=20=3D col=3D3D lapse=20(a=20%=20figure=20has=20impact).=20Ultimately,=20you=20have=20to=20= make=20a=20=3D cost-assessme=3D3D nt=20of=20doing=20/=20not=20doing=20something.=3D3D20 Whatever=20else,=20management=20will=20be=20very=20aware=20that=20if=20the= y=20ignore=20your=20=3D advic=3D3D e,=20and=20things=20go=20wrong,=20there=20will=20be=20a=20written=20docume= nt=20from=20yourself=20=3D havi=3D3D ng=20warned=20of=20the=20situation,=20which=20would=20leave=20them=20very=20= exposed.=20That=20=3D can=20c=3D3D oncentrate=20minds. Ho=20Hum=20-=20it=20all=20seems=20incredibly=20elementary,=20but=20its=20n= ot=20the=20first=20time=20=3D I=20h=3D3D ave=20encountered=20this=20sort=20of=20ostrich-like=20attitude=20to=20data= base... peter edinburgh >=20------------------ >=20Original=20message,=20formatting=20fixed >=20------------------- >=3D3D20 >=20OK=20guys,=20need=20some=20help=20and=20ammunition=20here,=20so=20a=20= bit=20of=20background >=20first.=20=20I'm=20in=20my=203rd=20week=20in=20a=20new=20job=20where=20= they=20are=20have=20a=3D3D20 >=203rd=20party >=20financials=20app=20sitting=20on=20=208.1.7=20on=20win2k.=20=20Software= =20vendor=3D3D20 >=20is=20coming=20in >=20today=20to=20make=20some=20changes. >=3D3D20 >=20They've=20never=20had=20any=20in-house=20DBA=20skills=20and=20have=20r= elied=3D3D20 >=20solely=20on=203rd >=20parties.=20=20No=20Oracle=20support=20contract=20(I'm=20working=20on=20= getting=20this >=20changed!).=20No=20DBA=20contract=20with=203rd=20party,=20only=20charge= able,=3D3D20 >=20ad-hoc=20work. >=3D3D20 >=20So,=20they've=20talked=20about=20getting=20the=20data=20in=20the=20tes= t/dev=20databases >=20refreshed,=20far=20as=20I=20can=20see=20they=20only=20have=20one=20dat= abase.=20=3D3D20 >=20Turns=20out=20they >=20have=20one=20database=20with=20three=20separate=20schemas.=20To=20refr= esh=20data,=203rd >=20party=20has=20done=20export/import=20between=20the=20schemas.=20=20I'v= e=20tried=3D3D20 >=20explaining >=20that=20this=20is=20not=20ideal=20and=20that=3D3D3D20 >=20really=20they=20need=20a=20separate=20test=20system,=20but=20they=20do= n't=20understand. >=20Absolutely=20no=20database=20knowledge=20in=20here,=20and=20it=20would= =20seem=20that=20even >=20the=20software=20vendor=20is=20lacking=20in=20this=20department.=20(Ju= st=20to=3D3D20 >=20demonstrate, >=203=20redo=20log=20groups,=201=20member=20per=20group=20size=201M,=20all= =20sat=20in=3D3D20 >=20same=20location, >=202=20copies=20of=20controlfile,=20in=20same=20location=20-=20=20get=20t= he=20drift??) >=3D3D20 >=20The=20work=20the=20software=20vendor=20is=20coming=20in=20to=20do=20is= =20create=206=3D3D20 >=20new=20schemas >=20as=20a=20way=20of=20providing=206=20different=3D3D3D20 >=20'staging=20areas'=20where=20copies=20of=20the=20live=20data=20can=20be= =20kept=20at=20different >=20points=20in=20time=20to=20help=20through=20year=20end.=20Once=20year=20= end=20is=3D3D20 >=20completed=20they >=20think=20they=20can=20use=20these=20'staging=20areas'=20for=20testing=20= enhancements. >=3D3D20 >=20I=20can't=20look=20on=20Metalink,=20as=20no=20CSI=20number.=20=20I'm=20= about=20to=20look=20at=20OTN >=20and=20go=20RTFM's,=20which=20I=20only=20got=20today. >=3D3D20 >=20What=20I=20would=20like,=20and=20quickly=20is=20some=20strong=20argume= nts=20as=20to=20why=20it >=20should=20not=20be=20done=20this=20way=20and=20alternatives=20to=20sugg= est.=20I've=20already >=20mentioned=20creating=20a=20dedicated=20test=20database.=20=20I've=20so= =20far=20managed=20to >=20hold=20off=20on=20the=20software=20vendor=20beginning=20work,=20but=20= I=20now=20need=20to >=20justify=20this=20to=20my=20manager=20and=20to=20the=20software=20vendo= r.=3D3D3D20 >=3D3D20 >=20TIA >=3D3D20 >=20Lisa. >=20---------------------------------------------------------------- >=20Please=20see=20the=20official=20ORACLE-L=20FAQ:=20http://www.orafaq.co= m >=20---------------------------------------------------------------- >=20To=20unsubscribe=20send=20email=20to:=20=20oracle-l-request@freelists.= org >=20put=20'unsubscribe'=20in=20the=20subject=20line. >=20-- >=20Archives=20are=20at=20//www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l/ >=20FAQ=20is=20at=20//www.freelists.org/help/fom-serve/cache/1.html >=20----------------------------------------------------------------- >=3D3D20 ********************************************************************* This=20=20e-mail=20=20message,=20=20and=20=20any=20=20files=20=20transmitt= ed=20=20with=20=20it,=20are confidential=20=20and=20intended=20=20solely=20for=20the=20=20use=20of=20t= he=20=20addressee.=20If this=20message=20was=20not=20addressed=20to=20=20you,=20you=20have=20recei= ved=20it=20in=20error and=20any=20=20copying,=20=20distribution=20=20or=20=20other=20use=20=20of= =20any=20part=20=20of=20it=20is strictly=20prohibited.=20Any=20views=20or=20opinions=20presented=20are=20s= olely=20those of=20the=20sender=20and=20do=20not=20necessarily=20represent=20=20those=20= of=20the=20British Geological=20=20Survey.=20The=20=20security=20of=20e-mail=20=20communicati= on=20=20cannot=20be guaranteed=20and=20the=20BGS=20accepts=20no=20liability=20=20for=20claims=20= arising=20as=20a result=20of=20the=20use=20of=20this=20medium=20to=20=20transmit=20messages= =20from=20or=20to=20the BGS.=20.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20http://www.bgs.ac.uk ********************************************************************* 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