RE: Shutdown Abort

  • From: <Joel.Patterson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <robertgfreeman@xxxxxxxxx>, <jkstill@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 16:12:24 -0400

Remember, this was directed at my observation.   I am not advocating, I
am being a messenger in this case.    I have done a lot of aborts,
without consequence, (and if my memory serves me back to Oracle 7, some
with consequence - but don't remember specifics).

So, maybe it was coincidence.   Don't take the observed, and mailed
message as an argument against abort.

 

That's not to say there wasn't something else wrong as has been
indicated.   However, I doubt I will be doing any 'testing' on this as
was also stated - there are bigger fish to fry, and this database is up
24/7 with RMAN hot backups.   I have a provision in my rman shell
script, where at the end, I can shutdown 'immediate' and startup to
execute special commands automagically while I sleep.  Most often to
create a new spfile.

 

Why is it immediate?   Well.... I don't know that abort was necessary
(even if it is safe).   Immediate doesn't take very long on our systems,
I'm sleeping anyway, and it just seemed like a nicer way to
shutdown/startup while I'm sleeping.   So there isn't anything really
'wrong' about immediate is there?

 

Shutdown immediate has been a matter of course since Oracle 7, because
shutdown normal is - well not going to happen.   Shutdown abort was
always done interactively if needed.   That great of an availability SLA
wasn't a big issue unless there was an abnormal downed production system
during business hours.     Just, most of the time, it seems everyone
grew up with immediate  -- (again just a small observation based on an
insignificant number of DBA's  -- say 15 over a decade).

 

Should I change my script to 'abort' in order to create a new spfile?
(or whatever task I program in)?   So far the argument is that abort is
not a bad thing, but indeed saves a lot of time, which can be regained
during startup.   What if that is not an issue?    

 

The impression is beginning to look like as SOP, 'abort' has become the
de-facto standard over immediate.   I do wonder why oracle isn't more
explicit with this parameter in it's documentation. - but before you
kill me on that, I am sure I am not as familiar with the Docs as you
guys, so if they have, be nice.

 

Perhaps you will convince me that abort should be SOP  (as opposed to
not bad).... But then were does that leave immediate?  

 

 

Going home now, be back tomorrow.

 

Joel Patterson 
Database Administrator 
joel.patterson@xxxxxxxxxxx 
x72546 
904  727-2546 

________________________________

From: oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Robert Freeman
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 1:54 PM
To: jkstill@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Shutdown Abort

 

Old arguments never die, they just get new proponents...

 

RF

 

Robert G. Freeman
Oracle Consultant/DBA/Author
Principal Engineer/Team Manager
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Author of various geeky computer titles
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        -----Original Message-----
        From: oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Jared Still
        Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:23 AM
        To: randyjo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Cc: oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: Re: Shutdown Abort

        On 7/3/07, Randy Johnson <randyjo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: 

                With all due respect this was not a controlled test. So
I'd be carefull not to assume it was caused by the abort.

                 

        
        Exactly.
        
        Please see
http://www.speakeasy.org/~jwilton/oracle/shutdown-abort-bad.html
        
        If you are not familiar with Jeremiah Wilton, he was a DBA at
Amazon.com from early days.
        
        Amazon has a few databases, and they were/are regularly shutdown
with abort. 
        
        Jared Still
        Certifiable Oracle DBA and Part Time Perl Evangelist

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