Re: Shutdown Abort

  • From: "Andrew Kerber" <andrew.kerber@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: jeremiah@xxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:29:52 -0500

This is my last word on the discussion.  We simply disagree and arent going
to change any minds.  By the way, we have an HA requirement, and do not use
shutdown abort as a standard.  When we have to shut down one of our HA
instances, we use shutdown immediate, and if it doesnt shut down the
instance in reasonable time (5 minutes or so), we will shutdown abort,
followed by startup restrict, shutdown normal.

With regard to 'guessing'.  Its really nice if you have time to sit down,
analyze the problem, determine the cause, verify through experimentation,
and come up with possible solutions.  However, when the boss, the bosses
boss, and the bosses bosses boss is breating down your neck for a quick
soluition,  the best solution is often replaced with a solution that works.
Dont mistake a wild guess for an educated guess. For example. the person who
had the issue of query which performed well int he past performing poorly
now.  And it wasnt using the index that it should have been using.  We had
exactly the same thing happen, and we never really found a cause, nor could
we reproduce it in either qa or test.  It happened at irregular intervals,
several months apart.  All we could determine was that rebuilding the index
that the query should have been using (tried it on a hunch), fixed the

On 7/3/07, Jeremiah Wilton <jeremiah@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Thanks Jared.  It has taken all of my strength to not reply to some of
the most egregious postings in this thread.  My more recent blurb on
shutdown abort can be found on page four of my 2004 HA paper:

I will confirm that practically every site that requires very high
availability uses 'abort' as SOP.  I am really surprised and
disappointed by the wild theoretical conjecture that accompanies the
steadfast resistance to 'abort'.

Speaking of wild theoretical conjecture, thanks to Alex G. for his
recent rants on DBAs and guessing.  I have long been an opponent of the
'guessing method' of Oracle tuning, which goes hand in hand with the
'try a bunch of stuff' method of Oracle troubleshooting :-)

Best to all, including the guessers,

Jeremiah Wilton
ORA-600 Consulting

Jared Still wrote:
> Please see
> If you are not familiar with Jeremiah Wilton, he was a DBA at
> <> from early days.
> Amazon has a few databases, and they were/are regularly shutdown with
> abort.

Andrew W. Kerber

'If at first you dont succeed, dont take up skydiving.'

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