Re[3]: Re[2]: EM access to developers
- From: kellyn.potvin@xxxxxxxxx
- To: Jeff Smith <jeff.d.smith@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 19:16:57 +0300
And I'll be paying for not mentioning Jeff's session during our Social Media
for the Techie joint presentation...:)
Sent from myMail for iOS
>
>Saturday, January 31, 2015, 8:53 AM -0700 from Jeff Smith
><jeff.d.smith@xxxxxxxxxx>:
>And for those dbas looking for more graphical status pages in SQL Developer,
>I’ll be showing that as well.
>http://www.thatjeffsmith.com/archive/2014/12/sql-developer-4-1-instance-viewer/
>
>
>
>From: kellyn.potvin@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:kellyn.potvin@xxxxxxxxx]
>Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 10:41 AM
>To: Courtney Llamas
>Cc: william@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Oracle-L (E-mail)
>Subject: Re[2]: Re[2]: EM access to developers
>
>RMOUG is going to have, (among everything DBA, Dev, EPM and all) a HUGE EM
>lineup. Along with Courtney's great sessions, Pete is doing DBaaS deep dives,
>Werner DeGruyter, Andrew Bulloch and I are presenting on our EM features we
>love. It's pretty much a who's-who of EM12c at RMOUG this year. This is what
>happens when your peers all submit abstracts and are rockstars.
>
>Now, it was Mark B. Who complained about the paging and no one in their right
>mind would let him cross the border into the U.S., but after the conference,
>he can download the slides from the Rmoug site, ( http://rmoug.org ) if he's
>interested...:)
>
>Kellyn, aka "taking conference director hat off now"
>
>Sent from myMail for iOS
>
>Saturday, January 31, 2015, 7:55 AM -0700 from Courtney Llamas <
>courtney.llamas@xxxxxxxxxx >:
>Can I hit a like button somewhere? Or just maybe +1042
>
>If your coming to rmoug, come see my session beyond the dba for more on the
>security aspect of this to understand why it is OK to give them access!
>
>And I can't remember who said they got paged cause there were alerts they
>didn't care about and th developers saw them, if that's the case your metrics
>are set up incorrectly. You should only set metrics on actionable items...the
>rest can be seen from all metrics or a report when needed.... Developer
>access or not 😄
>
>Courtney
>
>Sent from my iPad
>
>On Jan 31, 2015, at 3:38 AM, William Robertson < william@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> wrote:
>
>>Absolutely agree. We (DB dev team) do not want to manage the database and we
>>certainly should not have CREATE JOB privilege on production, but what we
>>most certainly do need is a graphical performance dashboard giving an
>>overview of instance status and allowing drill-down into execution plan
>>history, SQL monitoring, day-on-day load comparisons and so on. Poking about
>>in TOAD for misleading execution plans is so far from adequate it's not even
>>funny.
>>
>>Shops vary of course, and perhaps in some there is a DBA responsible for
>>everything database-related, staring across the hall at a database-agnostic
>>C# dev horde who want as little to do with the persistence dump as humanly
>>possible. However there are also sites where DB developers do PL/SQL, BI,
>>Perl and job scheduling and we need to know why the batch is overrunning or
>>the UI is not responding. This is partly for the level 3 production support
>>rota and UAT, but also for continuous performance improvement feeding back
>>into development. It would also assist the application support team in
>>deciding how to route tickets. (Nobody gets paged at 2am any more - we have
>>teams in 4 time zones.) The DBA teams are responsible for the stuff Iggy
>>mentioned - configuration, availability, upgrades, installations, backups etc
>>- for multiple systems, and aren't involved in application or batch details
>>unless there is some deeper problem that needs investigation, where of course
>>we value their expertise.
>>
>>One of the things people say about Oracle is it's complicated and hard while
>>SQL Server for example has friendly desktop tools. As a career Oracle
>>specialist I can't say how they compare, but I strongly suspect a clear,
>>informative and above all brightly coloured web dashboard would go a long way
>>towards reassuring switchers and decision makers that they've got something
>>amazing for their money.
>>
>>William Robertson
>>
>>
>>On 31 Jan 2015, at 04:24, Peter Sharman < pete.sharman@xxxxxxxxxx > wrote:
>>
>>> This is not your father's Enterprise Manager.
>>
>>This is the key point. Nearly all of the discussion I’ve seen in this thread
>>that mentions EM12c as a database management tool is just plain wrong – sorry
>>to be as blunt as that, but then again I am an Aussie! ;)
>>
>>EM12c is much more than a database management tool. It’s an Oracle data
>>center management tool. If you don’t believe me, go to the OTN page for EM (
>> http://otn.oracle.com/oem ) and look at the left hand side bar. Database
>>management is just of many areas the product covers. Whether you use it to
>>its full potential or not is up to you, but if you only use it for database
>>management you are doing both yourself and your organization a great
>>disservice.
>>
>>Let the flame wars continue! J
>>
>>Pete
>><image001.jpg>
>>Pete Sharman
>>Database Architect, DBaaS
>>Enterprise Manager Product Suite
>>33 Benson Crescent CALWELL ACT 2905 AUSTRALIA
>>Phone: +61262924095 | | Fax: +61262925183 | | Mobile: +61414443449
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>"Controlling developers is like herding cats."
>>Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
>>
>>"Oh no, it's not, it's much harder than that!"
>>Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>From: kellyn.potvin@xxxxxxxxx [ mailto:kellyn.potvin@xxxxxxxxx ]
>>Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 2:30 PM
>>To: Mladen Gogala
>>Cc: Oracle-L (E-mail)
>>Subject: Re[2]: EM access to developers
>>
>>Mladen,
>>You proceeded to read one out of about every five words I wrote. Sharing
>>knowledge is how we are all more successful. I know a number of developers I
>>was told, "they'll never learn any new tricks..." and yet after learning how
>>to make the most of performance data, were able to produce better code in
>>less time.
>>
>>For those that asked, EM Express is an excellent performance tool to allow
>>Developers to view the resource demands and wait events in database
>>environments, but that is a product fully installed on the user database and
>>no management agent. It doesn't have many of the management features that
>>DBAs liked in it's predecessor, DBConsole, but it was never meant to be. With
>>EM12c the product has far grown past just a DBA management tool- features
>>like database replay, (RUEI), middleware features, cloud management pack
>>features like Database as a Service that let's the DBA automate many of the
>>tedious tasks of provisioning and schema refreshes so they can be free to do
>>more interesting work that provides the business, with a self-service portal
>>for developers, PM's, etc. submitting requests. This is so all of IT can be
>>more successful, not just DBAs. Kyle already knows this, Delphix offers a
>>similar product as DBaaS, freeing up DBAs so they are no longer viewed as
>>roadblocks and lessen resource constraints.
>>
>>This is not your father's Enterprise Manager.
>>Kellyn
>>
>>Sent from myMail for iOS
>>>
>>>
>>>Friday, January 30, 2015, 8:07 PM -0700 from Mladen Gogala <
>>>dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >:
>>>Responses in-line:
>>>
>>>On 01/30/2015 09:37 PM, kellyn.potvin@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I saw too many IT departments remove DBA roles from their staff
>>>> because DBAs were viewed as roadblocks to project success.
>>>
>>>So have I. The IT departments that have done so have never succeeded, in
>>>the long run.
>>>
>>>> Attend a conference like ODTUG's KSCOPE and you'll hear this story so
>>>> often from the developers that it will make you realize that the "us
>>>> vs. them" scenario is making DBAs a liability instead of an asset.
>>>
>>>DBA is the guardian of the production database, the person ultimately
>>>responsible for its performance and availability. If the developer wants
>>>to put a huge full table scan in an OLTP application and use PQ to
>>>resolve it quickly, it's the DBA job to prevent that from happening,
>>>because such query would consume resources needed for other programs. I
>>>used to work as a production DBA in a companies with several thousands
>>>of online users, using web applications. If DBA doesn't exercise a tight
>>>control over the database, performance will ultimately become sluggish
>>>for everybody. And that is a resume generating event. It's my job to
>>>prevent that from happening.
>>>
>>>> Steven Feuerstein often asks in his sessions, "of the DBAs in here,
>>>> how many grant access to performance views in Enterprise Manager?" I'm
>>>> often the only one who raises their hand and the common excuse is, "If
>>>> we grant them access, then they'll be able to see things" Really.
>>>
>>>Of course they will be able to see things, but would they be able to
>>>interpret them correctly? Performance tuning requires certain training
>>>and certain mindset. Developers are rarely trained for performance
>>>tuning. From my experience, they don't show too much interest in the
>>>performance analysis. You would be surprised to learn how many
>>>developers still think in terms of buffer cache hit ratios.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, here's the way I see it. No DBA has any excuse for complaining
>>>> about the quality of code released in production if they aren't
>>>> willing to provide developers and testing the same access to view
>>>> performance data in tools such as Enterprise Manager as they have.
>>>
>>>Why is that? What would you achieve by giving an access to trace files
>>>to the person who doesn't know how to analyze them? What would you
>>>achieve by giving access to all those performance monitors to the people
>>>who are not sure how to interpret them? Instead of a diagnosis we would
>>>get a debate about the meaning of the monitoring data.
>>>
>>>> With more and more companies moving towards Agile, more companies
>>>> using scrum masters/scrum collaboration, it is essential for everyone
>>>> to understand the challenges they are up against and truly work as a team.
>>>
>>>Agile is frequently used incorrectly and becomes the source of the
>>>problem. The financial appeal of Agile is cutting the costs of QA. The
>>>end result is frequently spewing large quantities of code, without DBA
>>>being able to influence it. About 3 years ago, I resigned my DBA
>>>position at a company which was doing Agile, precisely because of that.
>>>There was an application code in the SYS schema. I am not a big fan of
>>>Agile.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Mladen Gogala
>>>Oracle DBA
>>> http://mgogala.freehostia.com
>>>
>>>--
>>> //www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
Other related posts:
- » Re[3]: Re[2]: EM access to developers - kellyn . potvin
