Re: Re: Controlling developers is like herding cats
- From: "Juan Cachito Reyes Pacheco" <jreyes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:49:16 -0400
RE: Re: Controlling developers is like herding catsHi April, the point is not
trust or distrust people, the phrase "herding cats" is not mine.
I'm developer and dba, and one time responsible to get every thing get work, a
situation where you can't say "ask him, I don't know", you have to solve and
solve, the way you can.
We have work more than 5 years in a very hard market, with several problems to
produce and sell products. The important is that several problems can be solved
and improved,
but you have to know how.
I read previously documentatoin, but I never supposed getting my OCP could
helpme to understand things I didn't understadn previously, now I advice every
I can to get
their OCP, becaue this will save lot of time and will do a better work and
faster.
For an e xample of a tood to improve relationship, and get better work and less
conflicts, is definitively ask to get a real certification. in everything
(oracle from oracle, microsoft from microsoft),
I'm not talkin about a cheap seminar.
I think Is very important to know what is happening, not for punish someone,
else to identify and fix things, and get the things better, for everyone.
Is true there are manager that likes to do things becaue they think they have
to do in that way, but I'm not talking in that way, I'm talking
tools you use to identify problems and fix them, tools that really helps to
every one, no something to manipulate people so they get their works faster.
I think one thing very important is to understand to do faster is not better,
the important is to do the things correctly as they are needed.
For example happens things like, you can do something daily, it seems to take
only a reasonable time, but then you see that that task took 32 hours every
month,
of a excellent and weel paid DBA, analysing the process you see more cheap to
buy a computer and get that process faster.
To me is very interesting talk about other thing than simple solving database
problems, is interesting talk about other problems and topics.
----- Original Message -----
From: April Wells
To: 'oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:53 AM
Subject: RE: Re: Controlling developers is like herding cats
Juan
Lighten up... it really isn't all so serious. And there is only so much you
can control. Listen to me... the control freak...
You have to trust that everyone is going to get their job done to the best of
their ability. It is the DBAs job to advise programmers, take the bullets out
of the gun when it looks like they are determined to shoot themselves in the
foot, and hobble them enough for safety when it looks like they are determined
to break production things.
You are the dba, it is your job to do DBA stuff. Programming is their job.
If they miss deadlines or screw up, it isn't any reflection on you, it is their
proverbial butt that they are dealing with. You can advise, you can teach, you
can even try to lead, but you really can't herd them. I know, I have been both
people. They will resent the inference that they need to be herded and rebel.
I think Maggie hit it best... tasty smackerels and amusing playtoys... you
catch more flies with honey that with vinegar... Maggie's sounds better.
Cajole them to your way of thinking and make them think it was their idea if
things aren't going the way you think they should.
ajw
April Wells
Oracle DBA/Oracle Apps DBA
Corporate Systems
Amarillo Texas
@>-->-->--
"Few people really enjoy the simple pleasure of flying a kite"
Adam Wells age 11
"Imagination is the highest kite one can fly."
Lauren Bacall
-----Original Message-----
From: Juan Cachito Reyes Pacheco [mailto:jreyes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 6:30 AM
To: oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Re: Controlling developers is like herding cats
Eevn when is other person organizing (when there is other preson
organizing),
there are problems only a dba can handle, or have to find a way to solve,
he don't have to solve himself, but he must know what he can ask.
For example, if a dba note some problem, he can ask help, in the same way
he can ask more hardware. He is not going to buy and put the hardware in the
computer.
But he must ask for, he must have ideas, to know how to improve their work
in group.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mladen Gogala" <mladen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Controlling developers is like herding cats
> It cannot be a DBA problem, because DBA is a superior being which is
always right.
> Saying that something is a DBA's fault is contradictio in adjecto. It's
like
> perpetuum mobile: a myth refuted by all serious database administrators.
> Remember the following:
> 1) I am thy DBA and don't have any other DBA's but me.
> 2) Remember to celebrate the day of the DBA.
> 3) Don't take thy DBA's name in vain.
>
> There is more, but I'm not in the mood right now, because of the wrong
surrounding.
> I'll bring you the tablets some other time.
>
> On 03/22/2004 12:46:17 PM, ryan.gaffuri@xxxxxxx wrote:
> > It's not a 'developer' problem. It's a team and management problem. It's
also a lack of technical skill amongst Developer's and/or DBA problem.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > From: Mladen Gogala <mladen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Date: 2004/03/22 Mon PM 12:31:53 EST
> > > To: oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: Re: Controlling developers is like herding cats
> > >
> > > Yes, that's true. One thing to remember when talking about developers
is
> > > that work liberates, or in German: "Arbeit Macht Frei". Good
organization
> > > is the final solution of the developer problem. Of course, I'm a DBA,
> > > in case anyone had any doubts.
> > >
> > > On 03/22/2004 12:15:33 PM, Juan Cachito Reyes Pacheco wrote:
> > > > This is true ryan,
> > > > But comments like "Controlling developers is like herding cats"
> > > > Seems that someone have problems organizing the work,
> > > > Independently of who is responsible of that, they must be solved.
> > > >
> > > > The point is if some one wants to talk about their problems as dba,
> > > > working with other people and how to solve them.
> > > > I have some experience and this could be interesting, sahre ideas
found to
> > > > solve them.
> > > > Now if no body have problems with that then there is no reason for
this
> > > > post.
> > > > :)
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <ryan.gaffuri@xxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 1:11 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Controlling developers is like herding cats
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > your question is vague. what do you mean by organizing developers.
its not
> > > > the DBAs responsibility to do that. It's their management's
responsibility.
> > > > >
> > > > > what do you mean?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: "Juan Cachito Reyes Pacheco" <jreyes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > Date: 2004/03/22 Mon AM 10:32:06 EST
> > > > > > To: <oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > Subject: Controlling developers is like herding cats
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know if some dba, want to talk about the way to solve
> > > > > > organizing a group of developer (including times, work to be
done,
> > > > > > quality control, etc.)
> > > > > > We have some experience, and had developed a software for
internal use,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe someone want to talk about this, I think this is a
critical work
> > > > > > for the dba.
> > > > > >
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