RE: Oracle alternatives
- From: "Marquez, Chris" <cmarquez@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "Oracle-L Freelists" <oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 12:29:05 -0400
Dick,
I don't think I missed the point, Open Source is a real viable option.
As an Oracle DBA I get sick of hearing people say;
"Oracle is always more expensive, lets talk about free stuff".
My point is your article and comments have validity, but not based on price for
the level of the offering.
>> "Now I'm not saying that PostGreSql is a replacement for Oracle, but
>> it's gotten to the point where one really needs to take a careful look"
If it is not a replacement *and* I can use Oracle supported for the same price,
what's the advantage?
Let me ask you because I don't know...How many CPU's can PostGreSql take true
scalability advantage off?
More importantly, How many PostGreSql users run PostGreSql on more than 2 CPU's
(even if it can)?
My guess is not the majority. If I'm correct than telling me that Oracle low
end option is "restricted to 2 cpu's" is not a restriction at all, but rather a
fair comparison.
>>even the commodity priced Intel boxes are sporting more than 2.
Yes, but consider this. Dell one of the largest providers of Intel server
ships, by far, most of thier server configured as two CPU boxes...that is a
known fact.
Plus they have sold more the any vendor the most pre-configured 2 CPU + Oracle
servers than anyone.
And just recently Dell said the are considering getting "back in" to the 4-way
market.
My point is, there is a very real active low-end hardware and software market
and Oracle can complete...offer more and be less expense.
The cost factor when you include support, in an Open Source vs. Commercial
Database Software discussion holds no water.
Again refer to each vendors own sales web site.
I too have worked for organization that had Million dollar Oracle budget, but
they had the business that could pay for and demanded that level of service and
support. This same organization had a signification "production" problem with
an Open Source web server (not Apache) for which the could NOT pay for support
and only had the email address for some developers.
Take a guess as to what the discussion was on the morning after...it was not
about getting another free web server.
I'm not bashing the free web server...that is not the point...that point is
they real didn't want or need "free"...the needed and wanted a product that
worked (for them)...a product that came with support.
People pay when the are in pain, or they foresee pain...the more pain they are
in, the more they will pay...and not having the ability to pay, might be the
most painful of all.
>> The key point is "True, Oracle has a lot more to it, but open source is
>> catching up".
>> And their catching up FAST. So fast that to not consider them is no longer
>> becoming an option.
I couldn't agree more...this is the story and reality of Linux, but running and
supporting Linux is hardly free.
>> Sorry you can't use Standard Edition One any more.
>> Nor can you CPU license it for deployment to the Internet.
You have a reference for this, as this is not what our Oracle sales rep told us
just 12 months ago.
>> As my CIO has said, we're coming into a time when software will become a
>> commodity item.
>> And commodity items do not command the large dollars in either acquisition
>> or support costs.
Yes, but consider this. "commodity item's" can often be thrown away...they are
deposable.
Years of vital corporate information is not a "commodity item" and thus those
that values there data spend significant money to support that data.
So even if the software is free, when the time comes, not "if" but "when", the
time comes for voluntary or involuntary change, someone will pay someone else.
Years ago I bought an Palm handheld. They guy at BestBuy ask if I wanted a
"support" warranty.
I told him he seemed to be confusing my desire to backup and restore my data
with the need or ability to buy another "commodity" Palm handheld. The Palm
handheld is a "commodity", but my personal data would be difficult to reproduce.
Chris Marquez
Oracle DBA
-----Original Message-----
From: Goulet, Dick [mailto:DGoulet@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thu 5/5/2005 10:36 AM
To: Marquez, Chris; Oracle-L Freelists
Subject: RE: Oracle alternatives
Chris,
You did a wonderful job of zeroing in on one portion of the
article & missed the main point by a country mile. If you'll re-read
the article you'll see:
"Of course there's more to licensing Oracle than that and I could go on
and on about that"
And:
"Now I'm not saying that PostGreSql is a replacement for Oracle, but
it's gotten to the point where one really needs to take a careful look"
Yes acquisition cost, or sticker shock, is a reality with the closed
source world and that is driving a lot of folks to alternatives, and yes
I probably ranted too much on that point. But that one sticky point is
having an enormous impact on my working life at the moment. The key
point is "True, Oracle has a lot more to it, but open source is catching
up". And their catching up FAST. So fast that to not consider them is
no longer becoming an option. Also the cost of hardware is dropping
equally as fast such that the initial cost of software is now popping
out as a greater significant factor. Oh yes, you can acquire Standard
Edition One for the same cost as the server, but now your restricted to
2 cpu's. or cores, when even the commodity priced Intel boxes are
sporting more than 2. Sorry you can't use Standard Edition One any
more. Nor can you CPU license it for deployment to the Internet. And
Yes Support is becoming everyone's, save for MicroSlop, cash cow. We're
paying over $100K per year to Oracle for support. Support for
PostGreSql is going to cost us about $10K no matter how many servers and
data bases there are. And there is a mailing list with the developers
of PostGreSql on it who are just as helpful as OTS, even more so in some
cases not to mention that LazyDba has added MySql, FireBird, and
PostGreSql to their discussions. And patches/upgrades are readily
available from www.postgresql.org. All in all a better, though I'll
give not idyllic equivalent.
As my CIO has said, we're coming into a time when software will become a
commodity item. And commodity items do not command the large dollars in
either acquisition or support costs. Take a serious look at that laptop
or PC your working at. It's a commodity nowadays. Software is just
around the corner & I'm afraid that Open Source is leading the way.
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