Very similar to the other discussion about vendor wanting to hide the data dictionary from the DBA.
/Hans On 30/01/2015 4:47 PM, Stojan Veselinovski wrote:
If they ask for it they'll get a read only account. Most aren't even aware it exists and when they see it they always ask if they can have access.I see no reason why we shouldn't give this access and more knowledge for everyone is better overall.Stojan www.stojanveselinovski.com/blog <http://www.stojanveselinovski.com/blog> www.stojanveselinovski.com <http://www.stojanveselinovski.com>On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Mladen Gogala <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:Iggy, in my opinion, that's a bit unrealistic. Developers have in depth knowledge of their tools and related business knowledge. Making them responsible for all aspects of performance would mean to put too much weight on their backs. Besides, what would DBA do in such a scheme of things? Let's face it, DBA is the natural predator of developers, needed for the balance and harmony in the ecosystem. On 01/30/2015 06:23 PM, Iggy Fernandez wrote:I'm in favor of separation of duties and specialization but, in my book, the application developers who developed the application are responsible for all aspects of application performance not the database administrators and therefore I want to give developers complete and unfettered access to performance information. That includes Statspack, AWR, ASH, 10053 traces, 10046 traces, and real-time information. The current crop of tools don't support this very well and, in my book, that's a design defect. Iggy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 23:07:53 +0000 From: dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: ian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: EM access to developers Are we strictly talking about non-database developers here? As a database developer, I get a lot of my projects by watching the performance pages in OEM and finding queries that are either slow, or are being slowed due to concurrency conflicts. You might say OEM gives me a large portion of my projects. Granted, I could get them straight from the database in the tables OEM uses, but OEM is a much quicker method when you're exploring recent history. Stephen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* "MacGregor, Ian A." <ian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:ian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> *To:* "oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <mailto:oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *Sent:* Friday, January 30, 2015 3:01 PM *Subject:* RE: EM access to developers Both SQL*Developer and OEM provide capabilities which are useful to DBA's and developers. In OEM you can control access to a target, and ensure that access is read only, but you really cannot control which panels a user sees. Much of what is presented is of little value to the developer. What developers want from OEM is to be able to view the overall health of the system, and whether any malaise is being caused by what they support. OEM comes closer to providing this than SQL Developer but is not there yet. It's been a few years since I looked at the SQL Developer capabilities in this area it seemed that it required giving a way the keys of the kingdom. Another problem with granting OEM access to developers is the load it may place on the OMS. Ian MacGregor -----Original Message----- From: oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:oracle-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Mladen Gogala Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 1:53 PM To: oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:oracle-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: EM access to developers Hi Pete, I beg to differ. EM is a DB management tool and I cannot fathom what would developers do with it? SQL plans are available from SQL Developer. Developers should use development tools, DBA should use management tools. It's not us and them, it's a division of labor. I doubt that developers would be interested in how long did the backup run or how many log switches are generated during the peek time business hours. So, it's us using EM and them using SQL Developer and Eclipse. That's just the natural order of things. On 01/30/2015 02:28 PM, Peter Sharman wrote: Quick answer: Not enough. J As Courtney mentioned, a lot more is possible more easily with EM12c than in previous releases. We really should be getting away from the “us versus them” mentality we’ve had for way too long between DBA’s and developers. As DBA’s, give the developers access so they can do their job properly but in a secured manner. As developers, use the tools that have been provided to understand and resolve your issues. Easy, right? ;) Pete Oracle logo Pete Sharman Database Architect, DBaaS Enterprise Manager Product Suite 33 Benson Crescent CALWELL ACT 2905 AUSTRALIA Phone: +61262924095 <tel:%2B61262924095> <tel:+61262924095 <tel:%2B61262924095>> | | Fax: +61262925183 <tel:%2B61262925183> <fax:+61262925183 <tel:%2B61262925183>> | | Mobile: +61414443449 <tel:%2B61414443449> ________________________________ "Controlling developers is like herding cats." Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook "Oh no, it's not, it's much harder than that!" Bruce Pihlamae, long term Oracle DBA ________________________________ From: kyle Hailey [mailto:kylelf@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kylelf@xxxxxxxxx>] Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 4:15 AM To: ORACLE-L Subject: EM access to developers Quick poll : how many folks give developers logins to EM? Last I was talking to people about 4 years ago no one was doing that. Have times changed? I know EM Express looks perfect for developers but I'm asking about access to regular EM. Thanks Kyle Hailey http://kylehailey.com <http://kylehailey.com/>-- Mladen GogalaOracle DBA http://mgogala.freehostia.com <http://mgogala.freehostia.com/>-- Mladen GogalaOracle DBA http://mgogala.freehostia.com
