• From: "Murching, Bob" <bob_murching@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "'cmarquez@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <cmarquez@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'rjsearle@xxxxxxxxx'" <rjsearle@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:47:53 -0400

I don't mind occasional questions whose answers can be searched.  The vast
majority of questions asked here could be answered by searching the net, if
not tahiti then one of the many sites that Google indexes.  Besides, when
someone asks a question whose answer is reasonably well known, usually two
things very good things happen:
1. Many subscribers learn something that we might not otherwise have learned
if the question had never been asked---irrespective of whether or not the
answer is in the Oracle manual!  
2. People with midrange skill sets get to exercise their ability to
communicate, answer questions, help others out.  If "RTFM and only come here
if the answer is not in the manual nor online" is the policy of this list,
then this list becomes the exclusive domain of questions that only experts
can answer.  I don't see that as anything to be particularly proud of.
Dialogue and traffic on the mundane generally is of greater benefit than
being a witness to the esoteric.
If it's really egregious then it needs to be put to a stop, and that balance
is something we collectively have to work out amongst ourselves.  I don't
think we should err to either extreme, however, and in fact I think the
current makeup of questions on this list is pretty good.


From: Marquez, Chris [mailto:cmarquez@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:22 AM
To: rjsearle@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: Oracle Mailing List
Subject: RE: DATAFILE??


Good response and I could not agree more.

I to have suggested RTFM and I personally subscribe to this for just about
every new Oracle venture I undertake.
For example, I personally have never put an Oracle CD in a machine with
first finding, reading, and implementing all the prerequisites and
"gotchas"...experience proves that installation without this approach is
sure to fail.  The same could be said for set up of RAC, DataGuard, Advanced
Replication, etc.  So asking "How do I do..." *without* trying is unfair and
will get RTFM.

However, for me personally a question of "How does this work..." coming with
some level of experience and trying _OR_ just in general conversation is
hardly offensive and those that don't care to respond should not.  And lets
be honest, every day on this list many or most questions can be answered via
Oracle documentation and/or Metalink.  I save all of the post to this list
for my own searching.  I would be glad to pull and reference many old
threads with many responses, that could have been answered alone via

I agree that this was a less than complex question, but if you look back at
my original response I was participating in general conversation...I really
did not *need* an answer (as stated), nor did I originally post it, but I
was curios....and since have seen some interesting responses, including
yours.  However, if I "hand to know" because maybe a developer told that it
mattered for performance then I would dig deeper just as you have outlined.

I got no message when joining the list that said "no question that could be
answered vi can be asked".
And even when RTFM or telling some to "look harder" is the right thing to do
(as you see it), there is an appropriate way and a negative way of getting
your message across.  This is a list of "people" and how one responds to
other people is insight to their character.
We all know what RTFM is, and those that don't, get it rather quickly.
There is not need to emphasize the "F" or other such bashing, and if one
must, then go ahead and spell it out...I'm a big boy I can handle it.
Anyone that needs to correct my behavior personally, just send me an email
offline and I will gladly give you my phone number so we can talk more in

Finally, why take any question NOT directed at you, personally?  An RTFM
question is not a personal attack, so why act like it is?  And remember the
posts on this list that get no responses are some of the loudest responses
of all.

Chris Marquez
Oracle DBA

-----Original Message-----
From: rjsearle@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:rjsearle@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:rjsearle@xxxxxxxxx> ]
Sent: Tue 10/18/2005 9:27 PM
To: MGogala@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Marquez, Chris; Oracle Mailing List
Subject: Re: DATAFILE??

I concur with the references to the fine manuals. But for what it's worth,
in 8.1.7 on Solaris, I have noticed that when rebuilding large tables in DMT
(to implement archiving without partitioning [another story]) Oracle is
allocating extents in a circular fashion. By that I mean that extent 1 is in
file 1, extent 2 in file 2, extent 3 in file 3, extent 4 in file 1, extent 5
in file 2, you get the picture.
 Extents are allocated slowly over time which suggests to me that an extent
is allocated only after the previous extent is full. Makes sense really,
given the next extent parameter on CREATE TABLESPACE. Doesn't Oracle then
allocate blocks within those extents sequentially? I've never really cared
enough to investigate so I have no hard information here except TFM.
 These are my observations only. It's been a while since I studied the
concepts manual so I can't recall exectly what it says on this topic. But I
can recall my experiences from testing.
 So I strongly recommend researching (Oracle, google, forum archives)
followed by controlled testing to verify!
 I consider myself to be very green at oracle admin but I am always suprised
to see such questions, and when I do I watch closely for the entertaining
responses. Mladen never dissappoints, thankyou Mladen!
 And to others that don't like the RTFM message, remember the old addage,
"If you ask a silly question, expect a silly answer!" Yes I know this forum
is here to help but often the best advice really is to recommend that the
readily available manuals first be consulted. Otherwise this will become the
place people will turn to for silly questions like "URGENT: CREATE TABLE

  On 10/19/05, Gogala, Mladen <MGogala@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>  WE get it? Who is "we"? The rule says that there are no stupid question.
> This is an exception.
> I am glad to help you clarify things. We are glad that you get it.
>  --
> Mladen Gogala
> Ext. 121
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Marquez, Chris [mailto:cmarquez@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:cmarquez@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> ]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:27 PM
> *To:* Gogala, Mladen; Oracle Mailing List
> *Subject:* RE: DATAFILE??
>  Right, we get can't believe the stupidity of this question.

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