Back in the mid 1970s when I learned to use one, the price here in the U.S.
was $3500. I don't know what that works out to in today's dollars, but I'm
guessing it wouldn't be far from $15,000.
The students at my school who were trained to use them were able to get ours
thanks to a grant from the Mellon Foundation, which brought the price down
to $100.
Evan
-----Original Message-----
From: Carolyn
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 9:35 AM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Hi, Optaconers
We had to mortgage our nearly-paid-for house to get my first one. The second
one, we got on a non-interest loan.
-----Original Message-----
From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] ;
On Behalf Of David
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 8:28 PM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Maureen Hogg <m.e.hogg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Hi, Optaconers
Learning curve, yes. And I guess pricing too was a show-stopper for many.
Not sure what the Optacon cost in the USA, but over here it was something
equivalent to 7000 dollars or so, in the late 90's. Given the average income
of most users, who often were on their disability pension budget, that would
mean half a year or more of income. Literally, more than a second-hand car.
Browse the list archives, and you will find stories how people here financed
their Optacon. Don't let us have a storm of repititions on that part.
Agreed, the learning curve is a challenge. Consider the following. Why is it
that the number of Braille users are declining? Because it takes efforts to
learn Braille. First you've learned it, you still have to spend energy on
moving your hands back and forth over the lines, and deal with heavy, bulky
books. Audiobooks have been the preference of many, even in the days of the
cassette tape. With today's electronically stored audiobooks, the comparison
to Braille is even more unfair. And what's more, you do not need to wait for
anyone to narrate the book any longer, you simply go ahead and buy the EBook
version. It does not cost anything more than what your peers have to spend,
and nor does it take up any more space than their copy. First you own the
EBook, you can go for a print out in Braille, or you can decide if it should
be read by your male or female speech synthesizer. You can put it on your
mobil device, and bring it along wherever you want, without bringing any
extra unit. So
what more flexibility do you want?
Admittedly, the number of users won't reach the skies. What was it he sang,
Terry Jacks:
"The only stars we could reach, were the star-fish on the beach."
If anyone intend to develop a next gen Optacon, hoping to make big money on
the project, they better spend their time on something more fruitful.
But exactly how much money do they make, the ones manufacturing the Braille
displays of your computer. And who makes the money on the old-time runner:
Perkins Brailler. Still, they are in the market, and still users benefit
from them.
Yes, I am one of those who have raised the questions you Steve point out.
The market of a new Optacon won't be all that big. At least not if today's
technology is going to be the standard. Still, that does not say it cannot
have its clear-cut place in the market. If they can develop, manufacture and
marketing the Grafiti for 15K, I am ready to say you could manufacture
whatever and hope for a market to pick it up. Smiles.
And what learning curve will be on a Grafiti? Will be quite interesting to
hear. All I've heard of it till now, was some kind of a podcast, a couple of
years ago, while still under development. And all it told, was some
inthusiastic testperson who did praise it all to the moon and back.
Now that it is here, let's have some real-life experience, and see if it
really will be a success. Many good reasons why it would, but we will need
some user experience to determine.
Hooked up with a camera, perhaps the Grafiti could have replaced the Optacon
in a very few situations. Given all the possibilities of the mobil device
features, and the OCR/scanner solutions available, many a user will be
helped out in their daily routines.
What we overlook a bit here though, is the learning curve of modern
technology. Believe me, I have been training blind students in using OCR and
scanners. That was in the days when not every person in the street owned a
personal computer. Many a neighbor would not even be using one in their
workplace. Teaching a blind person to handle a piece of paper - to him all
blank looking - is one thing. How to know to put it on the scanner the right
way, how to operate the OCR software and so forth. But that was only part of
the story. The real challenge was to let him understand why the OCR
mis-interpreted certain characters. Luckily I was a driven Optacon user
already at the time, and could inform him of the similarity between the
number 9, and a lower-cased G. Unless you understand that kind of issues, it
was hard to deal with the OCRs of the days. Allright then, today's OCR have
come a far way. At the time, we were happy when our OCR had a score of some
80% correct reading. Today, you woul
d complain, did it go much under 95% - and usually you expect more like 98
or 99 percent accuracy. Did technology of today stick, we would soon enough
see plain old-style handwriting disappear from the scene. In certain places,
you don't sign contracts anymore, by using a pen. You do your signing all
electronically, by some three-levelled password and coding system. Certain
offices have gone all paperless.
More and more correspondance - even from public services, banks and medical
care institutions - is being cared for by means of cloud services. And for
all of that, you would hardly be able to convince much young ones they need
an Optacon, however advanced and feature-loaded it might be.
Then there would be all the cases when an Optacon is inavoidable. List
archives are full of such stories. Of course, noone is using a typewriter in
their job any longer, so no need for a reading device for that kind of
operations. And most young ones today are not used to the kind of
independent living that we did a few decades ago. Then again, they never had
the kind of learning curves we struggled. To them, a cellphone is the norm
of the day. They grew up with scanners and OCR all surrounding them. The day
they learned to read, they by long knew how the computer was reading a piece
of paper. Some jokey guy claimed that today's babies learn to operate an
Iphone, long before they learn to speak. hahah. Thing is, they climb the
learning curve as they grow up, one step at a time, in such tiny increments
they don't even notice.
You ask how many of them would be interested in the Optacon? Good question.
Noone knows, as none of them have had a hands-on experience with the
technology and its potentials. Let me just add one extra question here. How
many of today's young ones, would be active Braille users? Not that they
know the Braille alphabet, and can make a few notes, read a short novel. But
really are active Braille users. People who would prefer a Braille book for
their studying projects. And given the chance, how many of them would be
able to move too much around outside, without a white cane. A good number,
most certainly. But not peak high. Still, we do have Braillers, and we do
get white canes.
One estimate would be, that young ones now aday, don't miss what they don't
have. They never had the Optacon, learned to live their lives without, and
manage pretty well. If they cannot read the display on their TV, they find
alterntive ways, or simply go find other hobbies and activities. I could
give you a handful or more good reasons why people may want to drive a
Diesel car. Yet more and more people get electrical cars, or even learn to
live without a car altogether. What we found to be useful in our days, and
still benefit from, may not necessarily fit into a lifestyel of these days.
But given the right price, and not too overloaded with features, who knows
what an Optacon could benefit a modern user. At least something the
developers should consider.
Give us cellphones and volunteers who can serve as narrators when we make
use of things like tab-tab-see, or be-my-eyes. Give us scanners and OCR.
Give us an Optacon, and leave us with sighted assistance in our daily
living. As a total it might amount to something compensating for our sight
loss, to a certain degree. But none of it could be viewed as a complete
solution all on its own.
Your point about the cost in engineering and marketing the Optacon, is quite
valid. So is the point you make about the users on this list.
Might not be much participants anything younger than the Optacon technology
itself. Little wonder, it hasn't been available for the last two decades.
How could people learn, when no learning units are available. And likely it
might happen, that the Optacon will go down, with the last user. Guess we
all wish for a new Optacon, but what we are calling for, is a modernized
version of old technology. Are we really ready to receive an updated
version, that would meet the requests and demands from the upcoming
generation? Think probably something hybrid between the Optacon, and today's
alternatives. That would give us the better of both worlds. Yet what would
that be? Smiles.
On 3/26/2020 8:30 PM, Maureen Hogg wrote:
It all comes down to attitude, Steve. And motivation. You areto view the list archives, go to:
referencing generational changes that are not necessarily for the
better
- changes in educational and social norms. The Millenials and
Generation Y are not interested because they were not instilled with
the proper education or motivation. You are also assuming there was
always a mass market for it. There never was. There will also never be
a mass market for the newer apps in assistive technology. And given
how many releases Apple can go through in a five year period, the
assistive apps now out there will be history.
An improved Optacon with an adaptable design surely has a market. The
"disabled" community will always need the able-bodied community's help
in real time. No amount of technology is going to alter that.
Technology can, nonetheless, mitigate the need.
How many younger people do I know who have an interest in the Optacon?
My neighbor down the street who is a high partial and 40 years old.
She was astonished to learn she could read on her own without a
scanner or a free telephone service. She was eager to learn about the
technology. And I've talked to the able-bodied 40-somethings who are
intrigued by it.
They begin to tick off the things I can do with an Optacon without my
explaining it all to them.
It's like a Japanese abacus. Recall how an expert on that "outdated
technology" was able to beat a computer on some higher mathematics.
Not bad for a centuries-old "device."
Maureen
On 3/26/2020 12:55 PM, Steve (Redacted sender k8sp for DMARC) wrote:
I am not of the opinion that patents killed the Optacon.to view the list archives, go to:
What killed the Optacon is technological progress. In economics, one
would call this "marginal cost", for most people, reading text got
much easier when software became available that worked with
off-the-shelf scanners to convert text into audio. You didn't need
excellent motor skills or good sensory capability to read; you didn't
need to go through intensive training of four weeks or so to be able
to read at a nominal 50 words-per-minute when you can put a page on a
scanner and read at 250 wpm almost immediately.
Are there things that you can do with an Optacon that couldn't be
done with a scanner?
Certainly, but here again, technology is changing that landscape.
There are apps which can recognize handwritten materials.
There are services that can describe charts and graphs.
Some of this can be done free of charge.
What I'm saying is there are very few needs that can't be met by a
currently available alternative for cheaper that are quicker and
present almost no learning curve.
I know this is not popular to say on this list, but I think a good
reality dose is in order.
What is the market for such a device given all the considerations
I've outlined above? Other than this list of dedicated users, how
many people who are Millennials, or Generation Z, do you know of who
have expressed interest in an Optacon? Exclude all of us on this
list who are Baby Boomers, or a few older than that of the Silent
Generation; and who is left?
Can you imagine how much an Optacon would cost after you spread out
the engineering and product development costs once you exclude all of
us who are basically not in the job market or educational market any
more?
I just don't see any way that such a device can be justified for the
very limited niche market that might be available.
Steve
Lansing, MI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mallard" <mallard@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <dan.tevelde@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 5:59 AM
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Hi, Optaconers
..And all the people said: AMEN!to view the list archives, go to:
Amen to this message!
Plus: Open Hardwaer and Open Softeare, please! No moe patents, which
is what eventually killed the Optacon.
Ciao,
Ollie, Androidian forever and ever
On 26/03/2020 02:44, dan.tevelde@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
I think you might be overcomplicating things. Any new optaconth
would probably have to have zoom features just like the ones you
find on phones and are used in computer magnification software. NO
doubt the best platform for a new optacon would be Android mobile.
A mobile device is very portable and easy to update. Android is
the most open software platform for development. App updates don't
need to be approved by Google. The only certification would be the
initial certification of the optacon as a trusted device to Google.
Having the optacon be a mobile device would offer the most flexibility.
It's also the type of device most people are familiar with.
Dan
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of David
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 3:03 PM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Carolyn <4carolyna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Hi, Optaconers
Eh, do we see one of the few cases, where we could wish for an
electronic feature of the next generation Optacon?
We have been talking of the benefit of the Optacon leaving all the
interpretation to the human brain. And yet, what if you got a new
Optacon. you sit down and do your reading, and come across a part
of the text in thick print. You now press a button on the Optacon,
and a tiny piece of software kicks in. It does no interpretation,
no reshaping, no nothing. What it is all about, is that it will
scan the picture of the character, and rip off all the thickness.
What is left for you to feel, is a true copy of the character, but with
thinner lines.
The basics of the technology could be described as follows.
Scan the image;
Look for continuous lines in the image, where three or more needles
next to each others are active; Cut off one of the needles in such
cases.
Your shape-lines of the character, now will be one needle thinner.
If you press the button once again, the software will go one step
further, taking the shape-lines down to one needle - the thinnest
and most crisp you could get.
Of course, there are the moments, when you find yourself wishing
there would be a chance to thicken some text. That could specially
be, when a font type has very thin lines in the top and bottom of the
characters.
In such cases, there could be a second button, leaving you the
chance to activate extra needles on the thinner parts of the image.
What do you think. This would be no interpretation, but more a bit
of assistance in "seeing" the shape more clearly, leaving you the
better chance to perform the recognition of the characters. Promise
you, when dealing with things like electronic diagrams, I've been
wishing for some kind of ways to make the lines thicker, just as
frequently as I wish there would be ways to make shapes thinner.
As a bit of a sidenote here, which goes along the same line of
ideas, how about when you read text that vary between bold
(emphasized) text, and plain characters. Or, where you would have a
mix of fonts, some more outstanding than others. Great if you are
eager to know the outlook of the page. And necessary whenever you
are to deal with certain features of the material you read, like
recognizing and distinguish the very number, in a mathematical
formula. But it often leads to extensive thumbling with the knobs
of the Optacon, raising and lowering the intensity and thickness of
the displayed image. What if the next Gen Optacon had a feature,
that could be turned on, which would attempt to give some mild
equalization through out the text. It would attempt to reduce the
boldness of the boldest print, somehow making it close to the rest
of the text. A trained user would still feel a slight boldness to
the print, but it would be no more than what still would be
readable, without any fur
er adjustment. Kind of ato view the list archives, go to:
"This is my reading level"-setting.
This level of adjustment could be saved, and brought up, whenever
the user wants to do a plain reading of text. You then can go for
the raw reading, like we have to day, if you need all the whistles
and bells of the text layout. But in most daily activities, when
you do not care much about the layout, only want to get to the
info, the levelled-reading could be activated.
And yes, of course any such settings should be divided into as
small steps as possible in practical terms. Having only one or two
steps of adjusting, may prove unacceptable. Again, blowing the
Optacon with 129 steps for adjusting, will likely be little
practically beneficial, and rather prove frustrating. Something
between 8 and 12 steps, either direction, might be useful. You then
could go from minus 12, to plus 12
- 0 being the standard, or Raw mode. Raw mode, would be what we
already have on our current Optacon models.
Technically, these features are possible, and not too difficult to
implement in the software - I would conclude. It is all about
algorithms, and is being done in photo handling in dedicated
applications on your computer and cellphone already. Without me
having checked it up, I am ready to think there might be some
freeware algorithms available on the net already, that could be
used for such up and down scaling of the thickness and boldness of
scannings of the printed text.
Lastly, one more thing that I find myself often wishing for, is the
chance of bi-derectional scaling of the image. You all are familiar
with the slider on top of the camera, leaving you the chance of
adjusting the magnification of the character a bit. But it seem to
only change the hight of the character. I wish there would be ways,
to adjust the magnification either direction. Sometimes it would
have been nice to widen the character a bit, other times it is nice to
lower the hight.
And there would even be times when you need do a bit of adjustment
to both the hight and width of the character, to have the best
reading experience. Specially this comes true, when you deal with
symbols, icons and things like diagrams of different sorts. If the
slider had been replaced with a four way button, like the
arrow-button on some old-style cellphones and remote controls, you
could have stepped up and down in either hight or width. Press
Up-arrow to raise the hight, Down-arrow to lower it. Press
Right-arrow to increase the width, and left-Arrow to decrease. Even
some users might find that they would read better, if the character
could be centered more to the point on their finger, where they hold
the highest sensitivity.
Don't know, what the rest of you think. Got a few more ideas here,
but we'll save them for later.
On 3/25/2020 6:34 PM, Carolyn wrote:
> I agree about thick print, as opposed to thin and sharp
> print.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> harlynn@xxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 3:18 AM
> To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [optacon-l] Hi, Optaconers
>
> This is Bob from Brooklyn, NY. I have been using my optacon
> to go over
> mail: I read part with the optacon, and part with my Sara.
> I like how they work together. I find that my main problem
> is still that I often think I know the next word in a
> sentence, and then realize I guessed wrong, and have to go
> back and figure it out.
>
> Very thick print is challenging for me. But regular print,
> I can do pretty well.
>
> I hope all of you are safe, and perhaps using some down time
> to use your optacons!
>
> Kind regards,
> Bob
>
>
> to view the list archives, go to:
>
> www.freelists.org/archives/optacon-l
>
> To unsubscribe at any time, just send a message to:
>
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>
> Tell your friends about the list. They can subscribe by
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