Ok! So we'ra all impressed with your technical knowledge, most of which I
certainly don't understand. That's why I like the Optacon just as it is! You
don't need any of that to use it anywhere!
Good night everyone:
Petra
----- Original Message -----
From: David <trailerdavid@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx,dan.tevelde@xxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, March 26, 2020 5:03 pm
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Hi, Optaconers
to view the list archives, go to:
Google, Apple, Microsoft? Or, for that matter, whoever else. Well'''?
Are you sure you want them to run your Optacon? What happened the day
when one of them decided to discontinue their operativ system? Thousands
of people will have to run and buy new hardware. No criticism here, just
want to point your attention to the facts. Go something like 30 years
back. Everyone was happily working their DOS-based computers. Sure, we
did dream. Dream of the day when the computer would let us play music,
movies and store our whole bookshelf. The day when all of that could be
done, simultaneously. And yes, the day came. That is, for those who
decided they had enough money, and who was all OK in learning a totally
new way of operating their computer. Was all due to the manufacturer of
the Operativ system, changing their platform completely. IBM, went for
their OS/2 - Microsoft got their Windows; and the rest of us got a new
unit on our desk.
Let's for a moment build the new Optacon, and base it on Android. Fine.
Until Google either make some change in their technology, disappear
altogether from the marketplace - or, simply update their licensing
policy. All the sudden, the Optacon cannot be used anymore, or is under
some kind of restriction, deeply dug into that licensing. What will ever
happen to your cellphone, the day Apple or Google pull the plug? Not
sure if the user will enjoy that to be the case of his Optacon. If the
Optacon plug is to be pulled, how about the user bending over and doing
that pulling himself. Jokey smiles.
Another thing is, why do we need a new Optacon at all? Android is
already on our Google phone and tablet. The device already holds a
camera. What's more, it has a USB socket. Get a display invented, and
hook it up on your phone. Chunk up a piece of an app, and see what you
can get out of that. There we could have all the whistles and bells for
our playtime. Only missing here is, we want an Optacon. A stand-alone
product, released from the rush of modern streams of "new updates every
week" product lines.
Android has all the programming capabilities. Facebook has the business
ware. And along with things like Instagram they have an over-developed
line of image recognition facilities. It's all there, quite ready to be
used. You just have to subscribe, you've just gotta pay. And, most
certainly, you'll just have to invent an Optacon that is just about
close to the design of a modern mobil device.
First you want to base it on mainstream platforms, and want them free,
why pay Google? What is wrong with Linux, or any other ones that won't
cost you a cent? All said with a smile. Nothing's wrong with either, of
course. I get your point, just not sure if it is all what we would be
looking for.
Keep in mind, Android is a full-sized operativ system. Using such for a
simple product like the Optacon, might be way over-complicating things.
You do not carry your laptop to the shop, do you - simply because you
need sum up the three milks and two breads your mom asked you to bring
home. And you don't start your Jet plane, just to run to the
convenience-store, picking up an Ice cream cone.
Python, would be another programming language, which is totally free of
charge, and holds numerous building blocks already made up, ready to be
used. NVDA is built on that platform. And see what happened to that. One
day a new version of Python was released, and now NVDA has been in the
transmission process for a couple of years. The new version is not fully
backward compatible, meaning that the screen reader might have to be
more or less written all up again, in the new environment. Again, not
sure if that is what we are looking for, with our Optacon.
True enough, I might have explained myself rather complicated, in my
initial message. I was not dealing with the operativ system or anything
near it. I just wanted a feature or two. And no matter which operativ
system, or software you base the next Optacon on, my point was that a
couple of tiny features would have assisted the users who expressed
their wish for better readability. Even if we go for a jet helicopter
like Android, you still would need some hardware buttons to control such
features, why I gave some example of how that could be done in a smooth
way. Or, are we looking for an Optacon that is all controlled by a
touch-screen like every other modern product these days? If so, I'll
back out of the line of Optacon users. LOL.
Please take all the above with a smile. No need to cook a meal, until
the fish has been caught. First we would need someone who would want to
follow up on even getting started in developing the new Optacon. And my
thought is that their real head-ache would be to design the new display.
Not until that is done, they would need much of a software. And
basically, the features described, do not need a piece of software - the
way you think of software. Technically, you would need a couple of
algorithms, and you then would burn them into what is known as an EPROM.
That is, a tiny electronic component, generally speaking being the hard
disk of the Optacon. An EPROM - though being hardware and fixed inside
the Optacon - could still be updated over the net or via a USB
connection, which would be desirable. Thing is that you don't need an
operativ system here, simply just the very piece of software that gets
your job done. An EPROM you already own, and likely you are the happy
owner of several of them.
Your Microwave has several programs. At least it has different effect
levels. Unless it is such designed that you have a manual turning switch
for choosing effects, which is all mechanical, you will be the owner of
an EPROM based unit. The EPROM holds the information telling the
microwave how long to cook your potatoes, depending on the weight you
set by the buttons on the panel. Likewise your washing machine, dish
washer and tumble drier. They all hold some kind of programming, telling
them how to operate. It is stored on an EPROM. And your DVD player? Oh
yes, and your CD player as well. Your MP3 player, your old answering
machine for the landline phone. Yeah, even the very landline phone
itself. Some models had a memory function, again being stored on an
EPROM. Modern radios and TVs, they hold an EPROM as well. Otherwise,
they would not know what to do, when you turn them on. Even if they are
based on Apple or Android, that only means that operativ system has been
placed on an EPROM. And guess what makes your phone, tablet or computer
even boot? If you now answer:
EPROM,
you are ready for a piece of chocolate, or go get yourself a brownie.
That is, unless you live in Canada, and have the chance of running to
Tim Hortens for a donut. Smile.
Even your keyboard of the computer. Press a key, and a signal is sent to
an EPROM, which will send a message (also known as the scancode) to your
computer. This in turn is picked up by your computers software, and
interpretted into a keystroke. The piece of software on the EPROM, tells
the actual key that has been pressed, and maybe even the physical
location. Like number 5 has been pressed, but it was the 5 of the
numeric, and not the main keyboard. Or, if it was the right or left
shift-key. It's all in there, on that small electronic chip.
See why we might not even need a full-sized operativ system? Most
dishwashers, laundry machines and DVD players as of current, work just
fine without. The manufacturer has developed the tiny piece of software
needed to carry out the requested functionality. Put it on an EPROM, and
chucked it inside the appliance. They never bothered asking licensing
permissions from anyone, and if they desire, they still can have the
appliance hook up over the net, and download updated information when
released. You've just gotta include that kind of feature in your software.
On 3/26/2020 8:47 PM, dan.tevelde@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Steve,to view the list archives, go to:
That is true about iOS usage but it would be easier to design a potential
optacon device and develop and update the software using Android. Android
phones are cheaper and the Android screenreader TalkBack is becoming more
accessible. Android devices are not locked down like iOS. As far as I
know the only place to get iOS devices is Apple. An Android device could
be sold by anyone as long as it was certified in the google Play Store.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On
Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 2:13 PM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Hi, Optaconers
Dan,
The problem with using Google is well beyond 80% of blind cell phone users
are still using IOS.
----- Original Message -----
From: <dan.tevelde@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:44 PM
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Hi, Optaconers
I think you might be overcomplicating things. Any new optacon wouldto view the list archives, go to:
probably have to have zoom features just like the ones you find on phones
and are used in computer magnification software. NO doubt the best
platform for a new optacon would be Android mobile. A mobile device is
very portable and easy to update. Android is the most open software
platform for development. App updates don't need to be approved by Google.
The only certification would be the initial certification of the optacon as
a trusted device to Google.
Having the optacon be a mobile device would offer the most flexibility.
It's also the type of device most people are familiar with.
Dan
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On
Behalf Of David
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 3:03 PM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Carolyn <4carolyna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [optacon-l] Re: Hi, Optaconers
Eh, do we see one of the few cases, where we could wish for an electronic
feature of the next generation Optacon?
We have been talking of the benefit of the Optacon leaving all the
interpretation to the human brain. And yet, what if you got a new Optacon.
you sit down and do your reading, and come across a part of the text in
thick print. You now press a button on the Optacon, and a tiny piece of
software kicks in. It does no interpretation, no reshaping, no nothing.
What it is all about, is that it will scan the picture of the character,
and rip off all the thickness. What is left for you to feel, is a true
copy of the character, but with thinner lines.
The basics of the technology could be described as follows.
Scan the image;
Look for continuous lines in the image, where three or more needles next
to each others are active; Cut off one of the needles in such cases.
Your shape-lines of the character, now will be one needle thinner. If you
press the button once again, the software will go one step further, taking
the shape-lines down to one needle - the thinnest and most crisp you could
get.
Of course, there are the moments, when you find yourself wishing there
would be a chance to thicken some text. That could specially be, when a
font type has very thin lines in the top and bottom of the characters.
In such cases, there could be a second button, leaving you the chance to
activate extra needles on the thinner parts of the image.
What do you think. This would be no interpretation, but more a bit of
assistance in "seeing" the shape more clearly, leaving you the better
chance to perform the recognition of the characters. Promise you, when
dealing with things like electronic diagrams, I've been wishing for some
kind of ways to make the lines thicker, just as frequently as I wish there
would be ways to make shapes thinner.
As a bit of a sidenote here, which goes along the same line of ideas, how
about when you read text that vary between bold (emphasized) text, and
plain characters. Or, where you would have a mix of fonts, some more
outstanding than others. Great if you are eager to know the outlook of the
page. And necessary whenever you are to deal with certain features of the
material you read, like recognizing and distinguish the very number, in a
mathematical formula. But it often leads to extensive thumbling with the
knobs of the Optacon, raising and lowering the intensity and thickness of
the displayed image. What if the next Gen Optacon had a feature, that
could be turned on, which would attempt to give some mild equalization
through out the text. It would attempt to reduce the boldness of the
boldest print, somehow making it close to the rest of the text. A trained
user would still feel a slight boldness to the print, but it would be no
more than what still would be readable, without any furth
er adjustment. Kind of a
"This is my reading level"-setting.
This level of adjustment could be saved, and brought up, whenever the user
wants to do a plain reading of text. You then can go for the raw reading,
like we have to day, if you need all the whistles and bells of the text
layout. But in most daily activities, when you do not care much about the
layout, only want to get to the info, the levelled-reading could be
activated.
And yes, of course any such settings should be divided into as small steps
as possible in practical terms. Having only one or two steps of adjusting,
may prove unacceptable. Again, blowing the Optacon with 129 steps for
adjusting, will likely be little practically beneficial, and rather prove
frustrating. Something between 8 and 12 steps, either direction, might be
useful. You then could go from minus 12, to plus 12
- 0 being the standard, or Raw mode. Raw mode, would be what we already
have on our current Optacon models.
Technically, these features are possible, and not too difficult to
implement in the software - I would conclude. It is all about algorithms,
and is being done in photo handling in dedicated applications on your
computer and cellphone already. Without me having checked it up, I am
ready to think there might be some freeware algorithms available on the
net already, that could be used for such up and down scaling of the
thickness and boldness of scannings of the printed text.
Lastly, one more thing that I find myself often wishing for, is the chance
of bi-derectional scaling of the image. You all are familiar with the
slider on top of the camera, leaving you the chance of adjusting the
magnification of the character a bit. But it seem to only change the hight
of the character. I wish there would be ways, to adjust the magnification
either direction. Sometimes it would have been nice to widen the character
a bit, other times it is nice to lower the hight.
And there would even be times when you need do a bit of adjustment to both
the hight and width of the character, to have the best reading experience.
Specially this comes true, when you deal with symbols, icons and things
like diagrams of different sorts. If the slider had been replaced with a
four way button, like the arrow-button on some old-style cellphones and
remote controls, you could have stepped up and down in either hight or
width. Press Up-arrow to raise the hight, Down-arrow to lower it. Press
Right-arrow to increase the width, and left-Arrow to decrease. Even some
users might find that they would read better, if the character could be
centered more to the point on their finger, where they hold the highest
sensitivity.
Don't know, what the rest of you think. Got a few more ideas here, but
we'll save them for later.
On 3/25/2020 6:34 PM, Carolyn wrote:
I agree about thick print, as opposed to thin and sharpthe quotes) in the message subject.
print.
-----Original Message-----
From: optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:optacon-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
harlynn@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 3:18 AM
To: optacon-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [optacon-l] Hi, Optaconers
This is Bob from Brooklyn, NY. I have been using my optacon
to go over
mail: I read part with the optacon, and part with my Sara.
I like how they work together. I find that my main problem
is still that I often think I know the next word in a
sentence, and then realize I guessed wrong, and have to go
back and figure it out.
Very thick print is challenging for me. But regular print,
I can do pretty well.
I hope all of you are safe, and perhaps using some down time
to use your optacons!
Kind regards,
Bob
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